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200W Tube or 500W Solidstate?!!!

B

Bassin Since 91

Oct 18, 2007
42
0
35
Havelock North,New Zealand
#1
Im currently looking for a head to go with my Goliath 4x10 4Ohm cabinet- i have come to two options, and i cant decide which one! They are-----
-Markbass 'Little Mark' II
which is a 500W solidstate head OR
-Traynor YBA 200
which is a 200W all tube head.
What i really want to know is which one would be 'louder' and have more headroom? (i hear tube watts sound a lot louder than solid state watts).
Some suggestions please............ :help:
 
#2
They will be about equally loud, but the LMII will have more headroom. Tube amps are perceived as louder, watt for watt, because of inherent compression and distortion. However, by that same nature, they have less head room than a comparably powered SS amp - ie: more distortion at the same volume levels, up until the SS amp runs out of power and starts distorting like crazy.

The question is not how loud you need to get - both of these amps will be plenty. The question is, how clean do you need to be? That Traynor gets dirty and crunchy fairly quickly, while the LMII is fairly clean right to the limit of its output. But we all know that it's the crazy, dirty girls that are more fun. :p
 
#3
dont base your decision on the technologie used by the amps.
i think, the important thing is the sound and not what is inside the amp.

both amps are loud enough... so make your decision on the features (weight, price...) and the sound...
 
#4
I don't own a tube amp and never have, but would love to, just to hear it cranked. My understanding from what I have read here is that tube amps *do* have headroom, typically more clean headroom than a solid state, but that the distortion you get from tubes is more musical than what you get from a solid state, which is why solid state amps need many more watts, so you don't get distortion. Is that true?
 
#5
Knowing how threads like this often turn out, I'm going to say this in advance - please make sure your posts here are respectful to other members. That includes making the effort to justify any assertions you wish to make and addressing points you disagree with in a way that cannot be taken as insulting or offensive.

Okay, carry on...
 
#7
Son of Bovril said:
I think you should base your decision on tone, because these two amps should sound quite different and IMO are gonna be roughly the same volume... the Traynor can be a bit more dirty, while the LMII will be cleaner. the LMII will definitely be smaller and lighter and probbly has more clean headroom
Click to expand...

JimmyM says that the LMII can be made to sound very close to vintage Ampeg, so (never having played it mind you) I'm not sure about the "will be cleaner" comment - have you played one? The Traynor can also be very clean, depends on how you play it - heavy attack versus light attack, lots of gain versus just a little gain, etc. I have played the Traynor, just not at high volume, and found it to be very clean and smooth sounding.
 
#8
Good thread; and yes, let's not decend into unqualified bashing.
Many of us have faced the same decision point - I'm at the OP's decision point right now as well. I'm considering SS over tubes because (allegedly) I can model a tube sound with an effects unit - and gain the benefit of low weight & low maintenance. Any thoughts on that?
 
#9
BillMason said:
I don't own a tube amp and never have, but would love to, just to hear it cranked. My understanding from what I have read here is that tube amps *do* have headroom, typically more clean headroom than a solid state, but that the distortion you get from tubes is more musical than what you get from a solid state, which is why solid state amps need many more watts, so you don't get distortion. Is that true?
Click to expand...

Not all tube amps are equal in my experience having had, and still having both solid state and some tube stuff in my arsenal. I like tubes for what they do, and yes you are right about the ear pleasing harmonic distortion, compression, and speaker dampening characteristics of tube amplifiers, but I've gotten far more clean headroom with a nice warm and fat punchy, articulate tone from well designed solid state amps that use f.e.t. and m.o.s.f.e.t. transistors in their circuit designs, than what I was able to get from many of the more popular tube bass heads of the days of my youth, with the SVT being the exception to the rule.

I'll always be a lover of good tube tone, but solid state has it's plus side to bass tone as well, and I'm amazed at some of the hybrid stuff that's out there. It's a beautiful world out there indeed.:bassist:
 
#10
I've heard this thing about the Minimark being able to sound like a tube amp, and I just don't hear that at all. My tube amp sounds nothing like any solid state amp I've had, or played, and likewise, having a few hybrid amps as well, those are a different sound again. The ONLY amps I've ever heard that sounded like all-tube amps, were, in fact, all-tube amps. Hybrids have some charicteristics of a tube amp, on the front end, but when cranked, the similarity ends. Solid state amps, any, all have a crispness and what I call snappy sound, that the other types cannot do. If you're amp shopping, the only factors that matter is the price, and the sound. We all have different ears, and bank accounts, so the amp makers have everyone covered.
 
#11
I have the YBA-200 and a GK 1001 RBII. The YBA can't hang with the GK volume wise. No way. Not even close...

The tone stack on the GK is super flexible. The tone stack on the YBA is - ******** at best.

OK - so I hate the YBA right ? Not so. Flexible it isn't. Powerful it isn't. Intuitive it isn't but - if you fool with it long enough - there's some nice tone in there - it does need to be coaxed out though. The YBA is very sensitive to the cab you use. The YBA seems to like 15's. I'm getting a somewhat 60's like vibe from it that I really dig. Not too far off the Black Face Fender vibe but louder than that could ever be. I've also gotten a somewhat stressed Ampeg from it - that isn't a tone I find real useful though.

I consider that a BF Fender Dual Showman through a small sealed 2x12 to have been one of the best recorded bass tones I've ever had. Not loud enough to gig with, but then the mic didn't really care. So for me, getting the YBA into that territory is high praise... other's mileage may vary of course. So will I carry the YBA out to gig with ? Probably not...

The GK is just the most 'un-fussy' amp I've ever used. I can find my sound - or at least a workable facsimile thereof given the constraints of the hall - in a couple of minutes using about any cab I've ever encountered - which in the real world of dragging it to down to the bars - local convention hall - out to the winery - up to the gym - isn't a bad thing. From a reliability standpoint - it is second to none. I'm a big fan, as you can tell. I migrated back to the GK after a year or so of playing through pre/pwr setups. That last of the rack setup's was an Eden Navigator pre driving a QSC 2402 - not a slouch rig by any means. There were also Demeter, BBE (Max & MaxT) and Alembic pre's as well as Eden WT head along the way. I honestly dig the GK more...

I probably will add an Eden WT head into the mix at some point - probably as a replacement for the Traynor or maybe as a supplement to - what it won't be is a replacement for the GK. There is a certain ting I can get from a WT-400 that isn't here in the GK - I don't need it all the time but I want it as an available sound in my quiver. The WT isn't an amp I would want to live with as my sole choice. Not any more than I could live with the YBA as my sole amp. Just another flavor to call on when necessary.

My audition of the LM was a complete snore... it's fine. Just not something that ever deserved the hype it received. The Shuttle is in the same boat. If I were buying today, I certainly would give the Shuttle a hard look before I bought the GK ... from out front, running through a cab, in the context of a band mix - you will be very hard pressed to hear much difference not attributable to the bassist's taste in where he / she set's the tone stack in a GK vs MB vs GB vs Epifani vs T'Funk - they're all good and from out front the differences are going to be subtle at most. Frankly if you can hear a big difference in any of those - it's probably the bassist doing something horribly wrong ...
 
#12
I've owned a YBA.....I liked it but IME it needs a large cab to sound good (i.e. 6x10, 8x10, 2x15).....anything smaller and it will not have much clean headroom.

It also depends a lot on what type of tone you want......the YBA is big and thick and fills the room but doesn't have a lot of definition. I've never tried a Markbass though, so I couldn't tell you how it sounds in comparison.
 
#13
sKu said:
dont base your decision on the technologie used by the amps.
i think, the important thing is the sound and not what is inside the amp.

both amps are loud enough... so make your decision on the features (weight, price...) and the sound...
Click to expand...

+1 Get both amps on a stage, have a buddy dial in the sound so they start off sounding both the same. Then while you look away have your buddy switch between amps. Play with the whole band and let them help you decide.
 
#15
Bassorama57 said:
Good thread; and yes, let's not decend into unqualified bashing.
Many of us have faced the same decision point - I'm at the OP's decision point right now as well. I'm considering SS over tubes because (allegedly) I can model a tube sound with an effects unit - and gain the benefit of low weight & low maintenance. Any thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

Modeling is a good way to go. You can instantly switch between any sound as the song calls for it. Sounds can range from identical "natural" sounding to extremely creative never been heard before sounds. You can even add tape saturation to mimic old recordings. Plug the modeler into a good non-colored amp and cab to get the most out of it.
 
#16
Nick Kay said:
They will be about equally loud, but the LMII will have more headroom. Tube amps are perceived as louder, watt for watt, because of inherent compression and distortion. However, by that same nature, they have less head room than a comparably powered SS amp - ie: more distortion at the same volume levels, up until the SS amp runs out of power and starts distorting like crazy.

The question is not how loud you need to get - both of these amps will be plenty. The question is, how clean do you need to be? That Traynor gets dirty and crunchy fairly quickly, while the LMII is fairly clean right to the limit of its output. But we all know that it's the crazy, dirty girls that are more fun. :p
Click to expand...

Choose which one gets your sound which leads to you attracting the girls that are more fun.:eek:
 
#17
Aside from the fact that the two amps will not sound the same, here's some things to think about:

Tubes:

Are relatively fragile and will eventually need to be replaced.
Will be associated with large, heavy output transformers.

Solid State:

Is usually lighter and smaller than tube electronics.
Is less fragile than tube electronics.
Probably will never need to have transistors replaced.

The important thing is to pick the one that sounds better to you. If neither sounds better to you, then consider that tubes are really neato-keen/cool, but require more delicate handling and regular maintenance, and are generally heavier.

As for me, take a look at my .sig to see that most of my current gear is, or has lots of, tubes, but I also use SS for a different sound.
 
#18
I have the yba200-2 and I've compared it head to head with a 200 watt SS amp (F1-X -> EV Dynacord). Both are 200 watts into 8 ohms. I've played them through the same speaker (Hartke 115XL) at length and I've done my best to adjust the EQ's so that they are the same. I've also used the F1-X into the poweramp section of the yba. I honestly can't hear where one is any louder than the other, if anything, the SS may have the edge. Also, be advised that the tone stack on the YBA leaves a bit to be desired. I've had to swap out the pre-amp tubes (12AX7's for 12AT7's) just to tame down the treble enough to my taste. I've never played or had my hands on a LMII but, from what I've read on this forum and from the test data I've read, I'd pick it hands down over the yba200-2. (jmho)
 

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