2020 Winter Build-off Apollo

[Jisch]

I have a Delta 12.5” planer Ive used on a few builds. It does a nice job on straight grained wood, but I’ve yet to find a motorized planer that won’t tear out some on wild grain, even with light passes and brand new blades. The double sided blades are disposable, and you can shift them a little to cancel out blade nicks, so you get a decent lifespan out of the blades. It has a head lock, but still snipes a little. It works best with a sacrificial board longer than the work to take the snipe. Sometimes a router sled is safer, but still no guarantee against tear out. I guess a panel sander is probably safest, but they are expensive.

I have a sanding planer, it works great for figured woods, although it's slow going if you're trying to really plane material away. I used it to flatten out boards as most of what I build with is stuff I dry myself, invariably there is cupping as a board dries. I run it with 60 grit, it's aggressive and leaves serious machine marks in it, but anything less and you have to go REALLY slow when removing material. For taking more material away I use a router sled.

 

[Novarocker]

I have a sanding planer, it works great for figured woods, although it's slow going if you're trying to really plane material away. I used it to flatten out boards as most of what I build with is stuff I dry myself, invariably there is cupping as a board dries. I run it with 60 grit, it's aggressive and leaves serious machine marks in it, but anything less and you have to go REALLY slow when removing material. For taking more material away I use a router sled.

That's the kind of invaluable info that I love this corner of the forum for. It just takes it up that extra notch of awesome.

If you don't mind me asking, do you have any photos of your jig? I have a good idea of how I want to put one together, but I'm unsure of how to "guarantee" a even level job if the board is twisted or warped. Do you just clamp it down? I figured clamping it in place perpendicularly to the router bit would be best. I am concerned that the board would want to move, leaving the cut unlevel. It's that first side that I'm unsure of, after that it seems very simple.

Dimensioning lumber isn't bad, I just haven't gotten the best grasp of how to handle body blank size pieces after gluing up.

 

[ctmullins]

Generally, T-O-M bridges do require a neck angle. Usually between 1 and 2 degrees is sufficient. Best to measure with your exact bridge though.

 

[Dadagoboi]

I've never installed a TOM bridge, will the neck need a tilt to it to work properly?

Depends how high above the body your fretboard is and how low you can get the particular TOM you're using. But generally tilt helps to keep the strings closer to the body for a tall bridge.

For me it's trial by error. If you have a bridge you know works with a no tilt neck, measure the difference in working saddle height vs how low you can get the TOM. You'll get a rough idea as to what the angle needs to be.

 

[Novarocker]

@Dadagoboi & @ctmullins thanks! Great idea. I believe my guild/DeArmond guitar has a TOM, I'll reference that one as well as my basses.

Luckily I have some shims from stewmac. I'll likely go a little shallow on the neck pocket and go from there based on measurements and eyeballing. Though I may just try a bit of a jig...

Hopefully the measurements from stewmac's calculator are accurate for the post placement. That's the only thing that makes me a bit hesitant. I can recover, but I don't know if I'd finish in time with that problem hahaha

 

[ctmullins]

I’ve never used the StewMac calculator. I always directly measure the actual bass. Mount the neck (even if temporarily), and measure the scale length on the G string. Place the bridge so that the G string saddle is just a hair(*) longer than that, with the usual slant that T-O-M bridges require. Place the bridge so that its adjustment range is to move the saddles more rearward; you’ll almost never need to move them forward for intonation.

(*) In this context, a “hair” is about the thickness of a G string.

 

[Dadagoboi]

@Dadagoboi & @ctmullins thanks! Great idea. I believe my guild/DeArmond guitar has a TOM, I'll reference that one as well as my basses.

Luckily I have some shims from stewmac. I'll likely go a little shallow on the neck pocket and go from there based on measurements and eyeballing. Though I may just try a bit of a jig...

Hopefully the measurements from stewmac's calculator are accurate for the post placement. That's the only thing that makes me a bit hesitant. I can recover, but I don't know if I'd finish in time with that problem hahaha

34" scale? 330mm (13") from center of 17th fret to post centerline of a TOM style bridge with about 19mm (3/4") saddle travel works for me. The shorter the travel, the more accurate you have to be.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

If you can temporarily attach a tailpiece you could use a simple wooden bridge, like an archtop bridge or even a wedge of wood cut to the right height, to determine where the strings intonate and mark the locations.

 

[Dadagoboi]

If you can temporarily attach a tailpiece you could use a simple wooden bridge, like an archtop bridge or even a wedge of wood cut to the right height, to determine where the strings intonate and mark the locations.

You can probably use the actual TOM with or without a shim under it. String pressure will keep it in place.

 

[Novarocker]

Thanks everyone! Phenomenal ideas, never even crossed my mind to try that. The tremolo will be easy to install, so I'll do that prior to the bridge and get the location figured out for it via proper intonation with the actual bridge. May need a shim, but that's okay.

Certainly changes up build sequence since I normally do the wiring last, but well worth it.

If you can temporarily attach a tailpiece you could use a simple wooden bridge, like an archtop bridge or even a wedge of wood cut to the right height, to determine where the strings intonate and mark the locations.

Finished up the body cavity route. Sadly, my router is probably caput...had a lot of drift in the depth when finishing up. Tightened the depth adjuster and collet which helped. But shortly after some plastic fan blade looking bits fell out of it. Out of safety concerns I plan to either retire it, or only use it when absolutely necessary to finish this build.

As a learning experience, I will probably take it apart and see if I can fix/repair it at some point in the future.

 

[TerribleTim68]

So, the wife spent more than a decade working for a local DeWalt service center. Most routers are very similar to a cordless drill in how they work and the parts inside. You'll have a center shaft with the motor assembly mounted on that and it will have a small fan at the base of it. That's probably the chunks you saw come out. Typically the only reason they would come out is if the bearings are worn and the fan blades were able to come in contact with something due to the shaft moving around in there. It's pretty tight tolerances, so any movement is bad. The question will be if the fan can be replaced, or if it only sold as a complete assembly (shaft, motor, fan). Often is the case that it's actually cheaper to just buy a new one these days. Even DeWalt is shuttering most of their service centers because there's no money in that business model any more.

 

[Jon Clegg]

In reference to the bridge placement/intonation question, @Bruce Johnson posted this rule of thumb some time ago:
Best way to calculate bridge position for a non-intonatable bridge?

 

[Jisch]

That's the kind of invaluable info that I love this corner of the forum for. It just takes it up that extra notch of awesome.

If you don't mind me asking, do you have any photos of your jig? I have a good idea of how I want to put one together, but I'm unsure of how to "guarantee" a even level job if the board is twisted or warped. Do you just clamp it down? I figured clamping it in place perpendicularly to the router bit would be best. I am concerned that the board would want to move, leaving the cut unlevel. It's that first side that I'm unsure of, after that it seems very simple.

Dimensioning lumber isn't bad, I just haven't gotten the best grasp of how to handle body blank size pieces after gluing up.

I'm traveling right now and don't have a picture with me. Generally you need to hold the piece down. If it's warped I put it in the jig so it's arched up. I shim, if needed, and use sheet rock screws put in at an angle to hold it in place. The bottom of my jig is MDF so I can do that. I usually try to take off the really high parts with a hand plane, before putting it in the jig, if I can.

 

[Novarocker]

Thanks again for all the feedback and help folks! It's certainly helping ease some of the overthinking I've been doing on this lately and giving me additional confidence.

So, the wife spent more than a decade working for a local DeWalt service center. Most routers are very similar to a cordless drill in how they work and the parts inside. You'll have a center shaft with the motor assembly mounted on that and it will have a small fan at the base of it. That's probably the chunks you saw come out. Typically the only reason they would come out is if the bearings are worn and the fan blades were able to come in contact with something due to the shaft moving around in there. It's pretty tight tolerances, so any movement is bad. The question will be if the fan can be replaced, or if it only sold as a complete assembly (shaft, motor, fan). Often is the case that it's actually cheaper to just buy a new one these days. Even DeWalt is shuttering most of their service centers because there's no money in that business model any more.

That was my fear, not surprised service repairs are being bypassed. Just the evolution of the industry I guess. There didn't seem to be much play at all at the collet. I'll pop it open at some point. I will be getting a new router, just figured if it was a cheap fix it would be worth keeping it. Sounds like it will just be a learning experience to see the internals.

 

[Novarocker]

I will be foregoing the air channel for the f hole for the build off. Something I'd like to do right and I have a feeling I'll be rushed to complete in time. Mostly due to the fact I'll be carving the cap since I don't feel comfortable trying to plane it down to the desired thickness with the tools and time I have.

On a side note, I may have to bow out this year. Family matters are coming up and are obviously more important than the build. The jury's still out and I have a feeling I'll be able to complete it, but just wanted to get it out there.

I just haven't gotten much time to work on it lately. However, I'm amazed at the resonance of the body now that I've hogged out so much wood.

 

[Jisch]

On mine, when I'm playing in front of my monitor speakers (I don't have them turned up that loud) I can very definitely hear sound coming out of the bass. I think when I record the song for my video, I'm going to mic it and see what it sounds like.

There's still lots of time, I hope you finish yours!

 

[Novarocker]

On mine, when I'm playing in front of my monitor speakers (I don't have them turned up that loud) I can very definitely hear sound coming out of the bass. I think when I record the song for my video, I'm going to mic it and see what it sounds like.

There's still lots of time, I hope you finish yours!

Nice! I still plan on cutting an f hole at least. At some point I think I'll still install the "channel," via a panel on the back of the body.