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3 Point Bridge Inserts

MrBassman17

MrBassman17

Dec 30, 2011
781
581
74
Brewster, NY
#1
OK, I know some of you will chastise me for this, but here goes anyway!
Just (a few days ago) took delivery of the new Epiphone Jack Casady 20th Anniversary bass. Sweet machine! I have a JC Ltd Ed, so I'm familiar with them. It has the standard Epiphone 3 point bridge (the new bass), which I promptly replaced with a Babicz FCH bridge. My Ltd Ed has a Hipshot bridge, and has had for several years, with no problems at all. Took the new JC to a gig today (Farmers Market), and noticed that it seemed to be going out of tune more than it should, given I put new strings on it as well, and it's not that hot out....so I look down at the bridge and notice that the inserts are pulled out about 1/4"! This is a brand new bass with about one day with the new bridge mounted on it! So, finish playing, go home and put the OEM bridge back on, after pushing the inserts back down, tune it, check the intonation, set the action, and all is good.
What I don't understand is why they pulled out with the Babicz bridge, and seem to be just fine with the Epiphone; and why I have had no issues with the other JC, same strings (Dean Markley Blue Steel) and HipShot bridge! Anyone have any thoughts on this matter?
 
#3
I can't understand why Gibson and Epiphone can't seem to press these inserts into a tight hole, it's not like this is a new problem that they have not heard about a zillion times. Or glue the insert in.
I don't think it has anything to do with the Babicz bridge or the Hipshot.
You would think Gibson/Epiphone would have gone out a a limb and abandoned that bridge two or three decades ago.
The recent Gibson EB bass has a Babicz bridge stock, so maybe there is hope they will wake up and start putting them on the JC, Thunderbird, Embassy basses.
 
#4
58kites said:
I can't understand why Gibson and Epiphone can't seem to press these inserts into a tight hole, it's not like this is a new problem that they have not heard about a zillion times. Or glue the insert in.
I don't think it has anything to do with the Babicz bridge or the Hipshot.
You would think Gibson/Epiphone would have gone out a a limb and abandoned that bridge two or three decades ago.
The recent Gibson EB bass has a Babicz bridge stock, so maybe there is hope they will wake up and start putting them on the JC, Thunderbird, Embassy basses.
Click to expand...
A vast improvement would be for the inserts to screw in, since we're speculating here.
 
#5
The Babicz may be just different enough from the stock bridge, to have sufficient leverage to pull the inserts out. Which doesn't negate the fact that you shouldn't be able to pull them out, anyway - regardless of the bridge you use. Grab some epoxy, grit your teeth, and join the "Had To Glue My Inserts In" club. They'll be glad to give you a number, if you ask nicely...;)
 
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#6
GIBrat51 said:
The Babicz may be just different enough from the stock bridge, to have sufficient leverage to pull the inserts out. Which doesn't negate the fact that you shouldn't be able to pull them out, anyway - regardless of the bridge you use. Grab some epoxy, grit your teeth, and join the "Had To Glue My Inserts In" club. They'll be glad to give you a number, if you ask nicely...;)
Click to expand...

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking, as well. It being a hollow body, should I remove the insert completely or just pull it up enough to get some epoxy around the edge? I know - I'll put the Babicz bridge back on and tighten up the strings! But for now, the stock bridge will have to do, as I have a few gig's coming up and I don't want to have to lay it up any longer than necessary, just in case something goes south...I mean, if the stock bridge is good enough for Mr Casady, I guess I'll have to suffer along!
Thanks to all for the advice - and I will take that number!
 
#7
GIBrat51 said:
The Babicz may be just different enough from the stock bridge, to have sufficient leverage to pull the inserts out. Which doesn't negate the fact that you shouldn't be able to pull them out, anyway - regardless of the bridge you use. Grab some epoxy, grit your teeth, and join the "Had To Glue My Inserts In" club. They'll be glad to give you a number, if you ask nicely...;)
Click to expand...

Correct - the length of the Babicz is noticeably greater than the stock, so the leverage is greater. I was thinking of some way to glue a block of wood inside the body with a tighter hole to give the insert something more substantial to 'grab' onto, but there's just no way I can see of doing this. It would be an easy thing to do while it is being built.....
 
#8
58kites said:
I can't understand why Gibson and Epiphone can't seem to press these inserts into a tight hole, it's not like this is a new problem that they have not heard about a zillion times. Or glue the insert in.
I don't think it has anything to do with the Babicz bridge or the Hipshot.
You would think Gibson/Epiphone would have gone out a a limb and abandoned that bridge two or three decades ago.
The recent Gibson EB bass has a Babicz bridge stock, so maybe there is hope they will wake up and start putting them on the JC, Thunderbird, Embassy basses.
Click to expand...
I think it's not so much the tightness of the fit as it is the thickness of the wood at that point. If there were a block of wood under the holes say 1/2" thick, in addition to the thickness of the wood at that point, there wouldn't be this problem.
 
#12
MrBassman17 said:
Yes, that is true, especially since this is a semi-hollow body; there is a block that runs from the neck through to the tail. What I meant was that there should be a piece under where the inserts are to give more 'meat' for the inserts to seat into.
Click to expand...
I have not ever picked up a JC bass but I am confident that there is a block of wood under the inserts for them to seat into.
Every semi-hollow with a stop tail has a block of wood for the bridge mechanism.
Gibson/Epiphone just doesn't do a good job of spec'ing the correct hole size to press the inserts into, and if they can't manage that correctly, they can surely glue them in place, or thread an insert in.
I've seen this problem with their solid body instruments as well.
Pressing or threading inserts into wood is not a difficult thing, furniture makers all over the world have done it properly for an awful long time.
 
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#13
I've had this problem on another hollow bass, and an Epi EB0, but not on my JC bass so far. I fixed it on the others by epoxying two of the inserts. I didn't epoxy the insert with the ground wire running to it, just in case that wire ever needed replaced.
 
#14
58kites said:
I have not ever picked up a JC bass but I am confident that there is a block of wood under the inserts for them to seat into.
Every semi-hollow with a stop tail has a block of wood for the bridge mechanism.
Gibson/Epiphone just doesn't do a good job of spec'ing the correct hole size to press the inserts into, and if they can't manage that correctly, they can surely glue them in place, or thread an insert in.
I've seen this problem with their solid body instruments as well.
Pressing or threading inserts into wood is not a difficult thing, furniture makers all over the world have done it properly for an awful long time.
Click to expand...
Well, you may be correct; I'll have to wait till I get the chance to remove the inserts and see what, if anything, is below the surface! It just seems strange that I have had no issues at all with my other JC with the Hipshot bridge.
 
#15
MrBassman17 said:
Well, you may be correct; I'll have to wait till I get the chance to remove the inserts and see what, if anything, is below the surface! It just seems strange that I have had no issues at all with my other JC with the Hipshot bridge.
Click to expand...
No need to wait and wonder, there is a block of wood under the bridge, no way to install the inserts otherwise.
Call a luthier real quick if you need professional confirmation.
You will see a trapeze and a moveable floating bridge on a full hollow body like the Gretsch below.
A tune-o-matic with inserts or a Gibson three point with inserts will be on the semi-hollows like the Ibanez below or a JC or an Allen Woody or any of the Gibson/Epiphone semi hollow guitars.

DV016_Jpg_Large_1321473139152_C.jpg
Ibanez-AGB200VLS-600x600.jpg
 
#16
58kites said:
No need to wait and wonder, there is a block of wood under the bridge, no way to install the inserts otherwise.
Call a luthier real quick if you need professional confirmation.
You will see a trapeze and a moveable floating bridge on a full hollow body like the Gretsch below.
A tune-o-matic with inserts or a Gibson three point with inserts will be on the semi-hollows like the Ibanez below or a JC or an Allen Woody or any of the Gibson/Epiphone semi hollow guitars.

View attachment 2751354 View attachment 2751355
Click to expand...
Very cool, thanks! So, bottom line - I should super-glue the inserts into their holes and instal the Babicz bridge?
 
#17
I would not use Superglue, it is not designed to bond hard metal to soft wood.
I would probably choose 2 part epoxy or tight-bond wood glue.
But before doing it, I would ask a luthier what they use for a task like this.
We have a number of them on this forum, I would go there and ask the question in the luthiers/builders area..
 
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#18
My JC definatetly has a large tail solid block joining top to back. It begins just rear of the pickup. The center section of the top and back have similar width half inch thick "stringers" running longitudinally over to the neck block.

Hybrid hollow/semi hollow.
IMG_0970.JPG
 
#19
Update and new revelation!
First the new revelation! I decided that I would remove the Hipshot bridge from the Silver Burst Ltd. Ed. to transplant it to the 20th . Anniversary, and, low and behold, when I removed it - the inserts were beginning to pull up from their holes! Unbelievable! Had I not decided to remove the bridge after all this time, it would have gone totally un-noticed! So, got some superglue, pushed them back in, mounted the stock bridge, as I will be selling it and want it back to original condition.
Now the update : the 20th Anniversary inserts came right out with no fuss at all. Took off the stock bridge, pulled up on them with a bolt threaded into the insert, and slid them right out. Coated the inside of the hole with Super Glue gel; pushed the insert back in; waited 15 min., or so, mounted the HipShot bridge and restrung it. Holding solidly. Thank you all for your expert advice, and a new skill learned! I also transferred the black HipShot Ultralite Tuners to it, and will post photos soon, but it looks awesome!
 
#20
MrBassman17 said:
Update and new revelation!
First the new revelation! I decided that I would remove the Hipshot bridge from the Silver Burst Ltd. Ed. to transplant it to the 20th . Anniversary, and, low and behold, when I removed it - the inserts were beginning to pull up from their holes! Unbelievable! Had I not decided to remove the bridge after all this time, it would have gone totally un-noticed! So, got some superglue, pushed them back in, mounted the stock bridge, as I will be selling it and want it back to original condition.
Now the update : the 20th Anniversary inserts came right out with no fuss at all. Took off the stock bridge, pulled up on them with a bolt threaded into the insert, and slid them right out. Coated the inside of the hole with Super Glue gel; pushed the insert back in; waited 15 min., or so, mounted the HipShot bridge and restrung it. Holding solidly. Thank you all for your expert advice, and a new skill learned! I also transferred the black HipShot Ultralite Tuners to it, and will post photos soon, but it looks awesome!
Click to expand...
58kites said:
I would not use Superglue, it is not designed to bond hard metal to soft wood.
I would probably choose 2 part epoxy or tight-bond wood glue.
But before doing it, I would ask a luthier what they use for a task like this.
We have a number of them on this forum, I would go there and ask the question in the luthiers/builders area..
Click to expand...

The SuperGlue gel I used said it is good for wood to metal, and it seems to be holding well after several hours.
 

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