Double Bass 30yo, too old to learn DB?

[Tom Lane]

TCL, I liked your post but must disagree with this little bit:

A lousy teacher is just that, regardless of the age of the student.
~~~~~~~~~

Of course, Feral, I can't argue with that.

In that specific case, that teacher, who is still teaching and has trained some fine bassists, taught exactly the way he was taught, starting as a child. I think his teaching style works for some students if they start with him when they're young and stay until 18. I found him useless for things like how to improve my acro tone because he had no conception of how good tone is produced, he just knew how to do it, like walking. Sometimes, one person's lousy teacher can be another's inspiration. Sometimes they're just no-talent hacks that take your money. And sometimes they're well-meaning but incompetent. When they're good though, I find it a real joy to work with them.

 

[Reiska]

TCL, I liked your post but must disagree with this little bit:


A lousy teacher is just that, regardless of the age of the student.
~~~~~~~~~


I had a few piano lessons with a variety of teachers when I was quite young (6-7). Didn't amount to anything, didn't retain any of it at all other than the memory of wasted afternoons. I know in my heart if a teacher then would've asked me what I liked (Pinetop Perkins, Jelly Roll Morton etc from my Dad's oeuvre) , and then taught me a simple boogie-woogie left-hand bass line I would've been hooked. Instead I was fed the usual "twinkle little star" drek. I understand, now as an adult, the reasons to teach Tinkle Tinkle Little Wee as building blocks to other more advanced material. As a kid, however, it simply alienated me from piano lessons which were soon unceremoniously dumped. Different people have different ways of learning, just as teachers have different methods of edifying – getting a good match is paramount.

On a parallel slant, I like the idea of teaching/learning as per language. When first learning a language, either as an infant or as an adult learning a non-mother tongue, we learn things that we can use right away. "Hellos", "goodbyes", "My name is..." and "I'm hungry". The grammar, the heavy-duty learning, comes later. Imagine trying to teach a toddler subject, verb, predicate while they're still struggling with pronouncing "juice".

I'm not a trained educator, though I have taught MTBing and other skills. I'm not a very good student. So, once again, take my ramblings with proverbial salt.

The trick is, get 'em hooked and then sneak in the medicine with the spoonfuls of sugar.

+1

 

[ladysingstheblues]

Thankyou for all your thoughtful comments. I'm trying three different teachers and will pick the one who seems like a diligent match. My interest in theory means I won't be scared off by scales and drills. I accept this is an entirely foreign instrument. Ok pleased, however, that my piano knowledge and theory will complement my general understanding.

I've been practising running up and down the notes in half position. Right now I've been focusing on strings G and D as this is easier to hold down. I want to ask my teacher about how to play the A&E as when I'm trying to produce notes I'm compromising my 'C Claw' looking form. I'm trying to build some finger strength slowly and callousing and work on uplifted arm muscle strength and fingers unflattened on fingerboard. I'm referring to Simandl and can read some basic exercises. I have an iphone tuner that goes green when I hit the note correctly. I thought I could use that for a week or two then to allow my ears time to understand and create memory of these lower pitched notes and intervals.

How does this sound so far? Also, should I just be ploughing away on the bottom 2 strings for strength disregarding form?

Thanks in advance....!

 

[bass81800]

Lady, I think you are on the right path, but, as a female who started later in life, I would make sure that you have your bass set up right, meaning having a luthier set it up, and a set up with a low action, possibly an adjustable bridge, maybe some easier on the fingers strings like Spirocore Weichs. Sure your teachers can help you with this too. If I recall correctly, it was never a problem of not being able to hold down notes on the two lower strings so just wondering if you bass is set up correctly.

 

[ladysingstheblues]

Lady, I think you are on the right path, but, as a female who started later in life, I would make sure that you have your bass set up right, meaning having a luthier set it up, and a set up with a low action, possibly an adjustable bridge, maybe some easier on the fingers strings like Spirocore Weichs. Sure your teachers can help you with this too. If I recall correctly, it was never a problem of not being able to hold down notes on the two lower strings so just wondering if you bass is set up correctly.

Good point, it's a rental from an esteemed local luthier. The girl in the shop suggested I have my teacher take a look at the setup and they'd welcome me back for adjustments. I will take it to my next lesson for a check. I will be returning to the shop anyway to pick up a bow so I can get stuck into arco. I will note my questions down also for teacher feedback.

Bass81800, how old/when did you start on UB and how was the early learning process for you? Also how have you progressed? Love hearing stories thanks for advice...

 

[ole Jason]

I didn't really start playing until I was 18 and entered college. It sounds like you're doing everything right and you're being realistic about your goals and capabilities. The only thing I'll add in case it hasn't been mentioned is to recommend you start playing with others really as soon as you're comfortable playing the bass for extended periods of time.

 

[ladysingstheblues]

I didn't really start playing until I was 18 and entered college. It sounds like you're doing everything right and you're being realistic about your goals and capabilities. The only thing I'll add in case it hasn't been mentioned is to recommend you start playing with others really as soon as you're comfortable playing the bass for extended periods of time.

Hey Jason, great idea and something I'm really interested in. I wonder how long it has taken yourself and other forum members to get to a point where you could join in with others? I know it will be a steep learning curve getting the basics down.

 

[bass81800]

Good point, it's a rental from an esteemed local luthier. The girl in the shop suggested I have my teacher take a look at the setup and they'd welcome me back for adjustments. I will take it to my next lesson for a check. I will be returning to the shop anyway to pick up a bow so I can get stuck into arco. I will note my questions down also for teacher feedback.

Bass81800, how old/when did you start on UB and how was the early learning process for you? Also how have you progressed? Love hearing stories thanks for advice...

I actually started playing upright when I was 49. I had this rental bass and I think my teacher at the time suggested it needed to be set up. There were other things I disliked about the bass, so I ended up getting a new bass. My teacher was very good. I played electric bass for many years,including jazz, rock, pop, Latin, and some funk. Also have a background in piano. I had an excellent teacher, and I got involved with the jazz band at the local community college. I really struggled with intonation for a long time, but that pretty much resolved itself with a lot of work. Playing upright changed my whole focus, from how I spend my time to what kind of car I drive, LOL! I really worked on bowing, even joined the local community orchestra for several years. Right now, I play in two groups, and sub, mostly jazz, and I plan to start my own group soon. Its been a great adventure and I have so much I want to do!

 

[SeaMist_au]

+1 for a low set up. Also I found starting with low tension strings while you build your strength useful. Any good teacher will fix this but just make sure that you use your larger shoulder and arm muscles to pull back and depress the strings and not your hand grip. You will cripple yourself otherwise. It takes some time to build up strength so just start easy at first. The international society of bassists also recommends stretching exercises for both body and hands.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the double bass. They are beautiful instruments.

 

[ladysingstheblues]

Wow, such thoughtful and kind responses. Good to know there are options to set up the bass for easier learning. Very inspiring to hear from those who began later on. I'm really looking forward to improving my ear and developing sound foundation skills... Really looking forward to the social playing possibilities, so love reading about your forays into community band/orch/jazz gigs.
Bass81800, how far along were you when you first started playing with others? Also, you mentioned a lot of work on intonation - was this primarily self directed with particular exercises or guided by your teacher?

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Here's the Devil's Advocate again. You don't set up a bass so it feels good, you set it up to sound good and learn to play it on its terms. Every bass is different and some will tolerate low action and some won't. Most won't and the only thing good about a bass with low action that's easy to play and sounds like ass is that it's easy to play.

 

[Feral Feline]

+1 to playing with others ASAP (super-motivates you!)
+1 to large muscle groups doing the work (a good reminder to me)
+1 to stretching (another good reminder to me), do a search for some PDFs on bass player wellness/stretching... If I was on my own computer I'd be able to post the link but can't find it right now.

Devil's Advocate to jeffbonny's DA: a bass that sounds wonderful but takes a well-experienced set of hands to RaSsLE (wrestle) that wonderful sound out of it, but is impossible to play by a newb and may result in injury to said newb from attempting to RaSsLE... isn't so wonderful.

So of course it has to be set up to sound wonderful AND play wonderfully, which unfortunately may result in some compromises somewhere... I hope you've got an extremely good bass luthier in your area M'Lady.

 

[ole Jason]

Devil's Advocate to jeffbonny's DA: a bass that sounds wonderful but takes a well-experienced set of hands to RaSsLE (wrestle) that wonderful sound out of it, but is impossible to play by a newb and may result in injury to said newb from attempting to RaSsLE... isn't so wonderful.

Totally agreed. When someone is just starting out it is far more important to have a bass set up that allows the player to get the most out of their practice time without having to fight the instrument than it is to have an instrument set up to realize 100% of it's auditory potential.

I've heard numerous people talk about how much of a struggle it is to rassle the sound out of the Amati bass.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Devil's Advocate to jeffbonny's DA: a bass that sounds wonderful but takes a well-experienced set of hands to RaSsLE (wrestle) that wonderful sound out of it, but is impossible to play by a newb and may result in injury to said newb from attempting to RaSsLE... isn't so wonderful.

Didn't I say don't ever play through pain? Setting a bass up not to speak to its full potential is no way to begin a good relationship with that instrument. And honestly people if you keep your elbow up the weight of your arm will do most of the work. People go on about how much force it takes to play the double bass when mechanically if you're holding it correctly it's much more efficient than the slab.

Just to be painfully clear I'm not talking about playing a bad setup that's too high. I'm talking about playing the setup that allows the you to draw the most sound out of that particular instrument. You guys encouraging anything other than that kind of setup are doing the OP a genuine disservice.

 

[Feral Feline]

Didn't I say don't ever play through pain? Setting a bass up not to speak to its full potential is no way to begin a good relationship with that instrument. And honestly people if you keep your elbow up the weight of your arm will do most of the work. People go on about how much force it takes to play the double bass when mechanically if you're holding it correctly it's much more efficient than the slab.

Just to be painfully clear I'm not talking about playing a bad setup that's too high. I'm talking about playing the setup that allows the you to draw the most sound out of that particular instrument. You guys encouraging anything other than that kind of setup are doing the OP a genuine disservice.

Yes, you said not to play through pain and many of us said it as well or agreed with it.
Didn't I say "it has to be set up to sound wonderful AND play wonderfully"?

I wasn't advocating playing a poor-sounding bass, nor was I denigrating your post – far from it because I agree with what you said. Nobody is encouraging anything but to have and do what is best given all constraints – I simply was trying to put forth that since life is not perfect, there will be constraints and compromises that must be made. People also posted about ergonomics and mechanical advantage of using the large muscle groups... I have seen no disservice given, genuinely.

Rather loads of great advice in this thread, and a great attitude from the OP. This thread is perhaps my favourite "is it too late to start double-bass?"-thread ever.

As Michael Klinghoffer states: "Link Removed"

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Sorry I misinterpreted what you were saying FF.

 

[SeaMist_au]

A good luthier shouldn't set the bass too low for the instrument if you ask for a low set up to start. Emphasis on the good here lol. Just a personal experience but I found an adjustable bridge useful. I started out with a low set up and then increased string height as I gained strength and became more interested in bowing. If you are having difficulty depressing the A and E strings, well something needs to be done. Either technique, string tension or string height, maybe all of the above or some combination.

 

[ladysingstheblues]

I will consult my teacher to look at it for me, and practising building my strength in the meanwhile. Thanks for the thoughtful comments!

Oh, I also found a nearby community band that plays jazz standards Etc and accepts people of different levels. Could be a good goal for me to work towards after building foundations.

 

[frankweir]

Hi Lady! I started a year ago at 62, same background as yours. Was able to start playing with cajun and bluegrass jam groups within three months or so but not terribly proficiently. Both those genres are a bit easier for getting started...basic chords and simple root-fifth base lines. After a year, I'm getting better with keeping a groove and incorporating lead up notes, passing notes and adding thirds. I also aspire to jazz. When I listen and look at the music, its pretty intimidating. You have to know your chord structure really well it seems to me and anticipate chord changes very very well. Try to find a cajun or bluegrass group. They just CRAVE having an upright bassist if they don't have one! It really fills out the sound so very well...I surprise myself! I sound crummy when I practice but in the groups, it sounds good and its fun! Keeps you motivated. Remember to practice every single day even if not for a long time. Its amazing that you can take a difficult passage and get better at it by struggling with it everyday. Big thing is to play with people! Can't describe how much fun it is. Our cajun group plays outside in a park by a pond in Ann Arbor Michigan in the summer...park goers listen, canoers listen, clap, sometimes dance. Summer breezes, sunsets, and playing upright bass...HEAVEN ON EARTH!!

 

[Reiska]

+1 for playing with people asap! And playing along with simple enough music that you enjoy.

I also find very satisfying to create simple basslines and riffs to play by myself, jamming and having fun. Try to be musical, creative and groovy. Stuff that you play doesn't have to be complicated at all.

That's one aspect of The Bass that got me hooked. On a bg you kind of have to play something tricky when you get your hands on one, on a db that is absolutely impossible. You got to be humble, musical and creative with those simple elements that you have