4 10 and 2 10 stacked?

[BassDaddySky]

In search of a clean tone, I'm updating my amp from the last "Century" to a MiniMega

The 1000 watt at 4 ohm Amp is on its way, along with a 4 10 cab (800w at 8 ohm)
I'd like to stack a 2 10 with the 4 10 for when the situation calls.
The 2 10 is rated 400 watts at 8 ohms⁸
Is it possible and prudent to simply wire the 2 10 in series to help balance the load, so the speakers all see the same signal, AND get the most out of the Amp?

Can't find individual speaker specs and hoping someone here would know if the math adds up how I think it would.
Halving the ohms doubles the power, right? 800+400=×2= 1200 watts. Which seems like a good match for the amp.
Furthermore, with the 4 10 at 8 ohms and the 2 10 rewired to 16 ohms, the amp should see 3.2 ohms right?
And Peaveys amps are "known" for operating happily at down to 2 ohms, right?

The cabs in question are Peavey headliners and will be played in a loud 5 piece deathmetal/doom scenario. So the clean tone will be colored with pedals.
Do these cabs have a crossover or other interface besides the speakers themselves that I'd have to worry about?

Also I will probably only need the full potential of this rig when the house PA is absent or lacking. So the 2 10 might not always be in use.

Thank you ahead of time for showing me the error(s) in my "calculations" lol

 

[Zooberwerx]

(2) 8 ohm cabs in parallel gives you a total 4 ohm load. It is not prudent to re-wire anything.

Riis

 

[ardgedee]

Peaveys amps are "known" for operating happily at down to 2 ohms, right?

It's not what Peavey amps are "known" for. It's what the specifications for your specific amp are. Read the manual -- it's on the manufacturer's website.

 

[BassDaddySky]

(2) 8 ohm cabs in parallel gives you a total 4 ohm load. It is not prudent to re-wire anything.

Riis

My understanding is the drivers won't see an even load in mis matched cabs.
and at best may not see the full potential
And at worst my damage the drivers seeing the higher load.
So why wouldn't one want to even things out?

 

[BassDaddySky]

It's not what Peavey amps are "known" for. It's what the specifications for your specific amp are. Read the manual -- it's on the manufacturer's website.

Yes, I've read through the manual(s) on Peaveys website.
And anything I could Google on the subject.
That's how I know they are "known"
Even called Peavey and left a Message, but have yet to hear back from them.
Amp specs are not in question,
The individual driver specs are not listed on their website. At least not that I could find.
If anyone here knows, that might help

 

[ardgedee]

Yes, I've read through the manual(s) on Peaveys website.
And anything I could Google on the subject.

There's only one spec sheet for the MiniMega. It specifies a minimum 4 Ohm load. You don't have to read any farther than that. If your speaker setup presents a lower impedance than 4 Ohms, it's not supported.

 

[pepj]

Ideally, your 410 wpuld be 4ohms.
I wouldn't run the 210 and 800w should easily be enough anyway.

 

[Zooberwerx]

My understanding is the drivers won't see an even load in mis matched cabs.
and at best may not see the full potential
And at worst my damage the drivers seeing the higher load.
So why wouldn't one want to even things out?

I'm going to wait until somebody addresses the resulting power distribution among the drivers. Your "let's not damage the drivers" is always a valid concern but re-wiring in series as a governor or to tap into hidden power is not the best approach.

Riis

 

[BassDaddySky]

Wait wait!, I ran the numbers through an online resistor calculator for a total of 5.33 ohms rated at a combined 1800 watts.
not the 3.2 ohms I had previously figured on paper.
If that's correct, it seems it would be ideal for the Minimega 1000 watts at 4 ohm rating.
does that math hold up for you guys?

The question on the speaker driver rating and if the parallel to series swap
will net 16 ohms or what still remains.
And if a crossover module or something else might prevent one from being able to rewire.

Remember, I'm shooting for a balanced load at close to the 4 ohm minimum
without having to lug around a second 4 10 cab.

I hope you guys know I appreciate any and all feedback

And I could have sworn i read somewhere that all Peaveys were robust enough at 2 ohms even though they are advertised at 4.
But now that I think about it, that might have only been referring to a specific era of Amps and not the class D that we are discussing here

 

[Zooberwerx]

I found this clip in an earlier thread if it helps:

"You want all the speakers to get the same power. To do that, you need an 8-ohm 210 and a 4-ohm 410"

Riis

 

[BassDaddySky]

I found this clip in an earlier thread if it helps:

"You want all the speakers to get the same power. To do that, you need an 8-ohm 210 and a 4-ohm 410"

Riis

That's the logic I was going by...
So maybe it's more doable to rewire the 4 10?

I'll have to take a look inside the cab once I have it in my possession.
And before I procure the 2 10

 

[Wasnex]

Your idea has a big problem. If a 210 is rated 8 ohms, the drivers are either 4 ohms in series or 16 ohms in parallel, You can't rewire an 8 ohm 210 to 16 ohms without changing the drivers, unless the drivers use dual voice coils.

If the 410 and 210 easily exceed your volume needs, just connect them in parallel for a 4 ohm load.

If the they are not loud enough, you should get a second matching 410.

Using a 16 ohm 210 will change how power is shared. The 8 ohm cab will get 2/3 of available power and the 16 ohm cab will get 1/3. I doubt the amp is spec'ed at 5.33 ohms, so we have to estimate available power

Impedance will be 5.33 ohms.

Solving for Voltage at 1000W and 4 ohms using V = sq rt(P*Z)
V = sq rt(1000/*4) = 63.25V

Most likely the amp will produce about the same voltage at 5.33 Ohm, so we can calculate power
Solving for P = (V^2)/Z
P = (63.25^2)/5.33 =~750.5W

750.5/3 = ~250W per share.

410 gets 2 shares ~500W
210 gets 1 share ~250W
Each 10 gets ~125W

 

[Zooberwerx]

Your idea has a big problem. If a 210 is rated 8 ohms, the drivers are either 4 ohms in series or 16 ohms in parallel, You can't rewire an 8 ohm 210 to 16 ohms without changing the drivers, unless the drivers use dual voice coils.

If the 410 and 210 easily exceed your volume needs, just connect them in parallel for a 4 ohm load.

If the they are not loud enough, you should get a second matching 410.

Using a 16 ohm 210 will change how power is shared. The 8 ohm cab will get 2/3 of available power and the 16 ohm cab will get 1/3. I doubt the amp is spec'ed at 5.33 ohms, so we have to estimate available power

Impedance will be 5.33 ohms.
View attachment 7165099
Solving for Voltage at 1000W and 4 ohms using V = sq rt(P*Z)
V = sq rt(1000/*4) = 63.25V

Most likely the amp will produce about the same voltage at 5.33 Ohm, so we can calculate power
Solving for P = (V^2)/Z
P = (63.25^2)/5.33 =~750.5W

750.5/3 = ~250W per share.

410 gets 2 shares ~500W
210 gets 1 share ~250W
Each 10 gets ~125W

...and there's the math I mentioned earlier. As Wasnex mentioned (my highlights), I'd take the simple path of running in parallel as-is and apply some common sense volume-wise.

Riis

 

[Thundar]

Yes, I've read through the manual(s) on Peaveys website.
And anything I could Google on the subject.
That's how I know they are "known"
Even called Peavey and left a Message, but have yet to hear back from them.
Amp specs are not in question,
The individual driver specs are not listed on their website. At least not that I could find.
If anyone here knows, that might help

Most of the "old" heavy Peavey heads like the Firebass, Mark series, T-Max, etc were built to handle a 2 ohm load...I still have my 30 yr old T-Max. The newer Peaveys (Tour, MiniMega and MiniMax) are not 2 ohm stable. I have a MiniMega and its a good amp, but I dont feel like its particularly powerful as someone would expect 1000 watts to be, but some of the features are very cool. If you have the option of buying different cabinets, I would go with two 410 cabs that are 8 ohms...especially if youre playing heavy rock/metal. The Headliner cabs are Ok if youre not expecting too much out of them, but if you found some used 410's like 2 Hartke Hydrives, or older Peavey (Tour, TVX, TXF) or a couple of SWR Goliaths then you'd be easily able to keep up...even 2 Avatar cabs would be great.

 

[MrVentures]

Not sure if you have current Headliners or if I am missing something, but this is Invalid Link Removed:

With the 8 ohm impedance, the Headliner 410 can be easily stacked with a Headliner 210 cabinet on top, resulting in a 4 ohm total load.

Also likely not helpful, but maybe consider sending the Headliners back and getting something like the Barefaced Six10. Heck of a lot of power and lighter than the Headliner 410 alone.

 

[agedhorse]

Note that the Headliners power ratings are "program power". The true RMS power is 1/2 of the program power which means that you are WAY overpowered for this amp into the 210.

You need to understand what the specs mean, not just what they say.

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

In search of a clean tone, I'm updating my amp from the last "Century" to a MiniMega
View attachment 7164972
The 1000 watt at 4 ohm Amp is on its way, along with a 4 10 cab (800w at 8 ohm)
I'd like to stack a 2 10 with the 4 10 for when the situation calls.
The 2 10 is rated 400 watts at 8 ohms⁸
Is it possible and prudent to simply wire the 2 10 in series to help balance the load, so the speakers all see the same signal, AND get the most out of the Amp?

Can't find individual speaker specs and hoping someone here would know if the math adds up how I think it would.
Halving the ohms doubles the power, right? 800+400=×2= 1200 watts. Which seems like a good match for the amp.
Furthermore, with the 4 10 at 8 ohms and the 2 10 rewired to 16 ohms, the amp should see 3.2 ohms right?
And Peaveys amps are "known" for operating happily at down to 2 ohms, right?

The cabs in question are Peavey headliners and will be played in a loud 5 piece deathmetal/doom scenario. So the clean tone will be colored with pedals.
Do these cabs have a crossover or other interface besides the speakers themselves that I'd have to worry about?

Also I will probably only need the full potential of this rig when the house PA is absent or lacking. So the 2 10 might not always be in use.

Thank you ahead of time for showing me the error(s) in my "calculations" lol

I had the Mini Mega and loved it, only sold due to money. Highly recommend you dumping your cabs and getting a pair of Mesa Subway 210's, because they will take and allow you to really use the power of your new amp, one or as a pair. They also sound awesome!

: )

 

[logdrum]

I think 410 are better paired with another 410. I think you are better off with just the 410 by itslef

View attachment 7165099

Every time I see this chart, I want to do a séance, maybe ask James Jamerson spirit to guide the E-Bow while asking amplifications questions? That's what happens when you spend the day watching a season or two of Charmed because of this nagging crush on Alyssa Milano. I did digress a bit there

 

[walterw]

a 4 10 cab (800w at 8 ohm)
I'd like to stack a 2 10 with the 4 10 for when the situation calls.
The 2 10 is rated 400 watts at 8 ohms⁸
Is it possible and prudent to simply wire the 2 10 in series to help balance the load, so the speakers all see the same signal, AND get the most out of the Amp?

unfortunately this just isn't going to happen

the individual 2x10 speakers are a different impedance than the individual 4x10 speakers, you won't get a truly even "6x10" of of the arrangement no matter how you re-wire the cabs

if the 4x10 were a 4Ω version to go under an 8Ω 2x10 (or if the 2x10 could have been re-wired to 16Ω to sit on an 8Ω 4x10) then yes, but as it stands no

 

[walterw]

The question on the speaker driver rating and if the parallel to series swap
will net 16 ohms or what still remains

it's not a question because the answer is no

an 8Ω 2x10 cab either has two 16Ω drivers in parallel or two 4Ω drivers in series. you can't trick the cab into being 16Ω total

same with the 8Ω 4x10 cab, it either has four 8Ω drivers or four 32Ω drivers, you can't make it be 4Ω total