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4 10 and 2 10 stacked?

In search of a clean tone, I'm updating my amp from the last "Century" to a MiniMega
View attachment 7164972
The 1000 watt at 4 ohm Amp is on its way, along with a 4 10 cab (800w at 8 ohm)
I'd like to stack a 2 10 with the 4 10 for when the situation calls.
The 2 10 is rated 400 watts at 8 ohms⁸
Is it possible and prudent to simply wire the 2 10 in series to help balance the load, so the speakers all see the same signal, AND get the most out of the Amp?

Can't find individual speaker specs and hoping someone here would know if the math adds up how I think it would.
Halving the ohms doubles the power, right? 800+400=×2= 1200 watts. Which seems like a good match for the amp.
Furthermore, with the 4 10 at 8 ohms and the 2 10 rewired to 16 ohms, the amp should see 3.2 ohms right?
And Peaveys amps are "known" for operating happily at down to 2 ohms, right?

The cabs in question are Peavey headliners and will be played in a loud 5 piece deathmetal/doom scenario. So the clean tone will be colored with pedals.
Do these cabs have a crossover or other interface besides the speakers themselves that I'd have to worry about?

Also I will probably only need the full potential of this rig when the house PA is absent or lacking. So the 2 10 might not always be in use.

Thank you ahead of time for showing me the error(s) in my "calculations" lol
First off, I wouldn't re-wire anything. You'll immediately void any warranty if you do that. Also you better check your owners manual. If it says the minimum ohm load is 4Ω, you're playing with fire trying to run it at 3.2Ω and liable to end up with an expensive paper weight because all the magic smoke in your amp just escaped (interior components burned up).

Also, you seem to be a bit confused on the way parallel and series connections work.

Series connections add ohms together increasing ohms load - parallel connections reduce ohms load. If you have a 210 cab rated for 8Ω, that cab is using either two 4Ω speakers wired in series, which increases the ohms load (4Ω+4Ω in series=8Ω load) or it's using two 16Ω speakers wired in parallel, which decreases the ohms load (16Ω+16Ω wired in parallel=8Ω load. If the internal speakers are 16Ω speakers, when you wire them internally in series, that will give you a 32Ω cab (16Ω+16Ω in series=32Ω load).

The combination of an 8Ω cab and a 32Ω cab hooked up in parallel (industry standard connection) will give you a 6.4Ω load, which your amp will handle That means that less than half of that 1000-watts into 4Ω load rating will actually go out to the speakers to be split between them. I'm guessing 650 to 700 watts or so? And the 8Ω cab will get 4 times as much power as the 210. So the 210 would not really be adding a lot at that point.

If you really wanted to get the same amount of power to each speaker using a 410 cab and a 210 cab, you could do that by using an 8Ω 210 and a 4Ω 410 cab IF and only IF your amp can handle a 2.67Ω load. Normally an amp will divide the power evenly between two cabs of the same ohm rating. With a 4Ω and 8Ω split, the 4Ω will get twice as much power as explained earlier. For ease of explanation, lets pretend your 1000-watt amp that will handle a 2.67Ω minimum ohms load. It can't, but we'll pretend it does so you can understand how this works

The cab with the lower ohms rating (4Ω instead of 8Ω) will get twice as much power as the 8Ω cab. That means the 4Ω cab will get 666.67-watts and the 8Ω cab will get 333.33-watts. Divide 666.66 by 4 and you get 166.66 watts per speaker in your 410. Divide 333.33 by 2 and you also get 166.66 watts power speaker. That would mean all your speakers would be getting exactly the same amount of power. That's actually pretty cool IF your amp could handle a 2.67Ω load - it can't.

Another caveat would be that your 4Ω 410 cab would have to be able to handle 667 watts (rounded the fraction of a watt up). Had some folks do that with Eden gear when I was a moderator at the Eden forum, but their amps could handle a 2Ω load, so a 2.67Ω load wasn't a problem. Their cabs could handle either 700 or 1000-watts depending upon whether it was a D410XLT or a D410XST. Any of the D-series 210 Eden models could handle 267-watts.

Now, if you have two 8Ω cabs then your power will be split equally between the two - each cab would get 500-watts. As long as your cabs can handle 500-watts, that will work. Your 210 c ab will be getting the same amount of power as the 410 but it will only be split by two speakers, not four. So each of the 210's speakers will be getting twice as much power per speaker as your 410 will be, but if your 210 is rated for 500-watts rms, it will work. In cases like that, it's wise to put the 210 on top so it is easiest for you to hear if the speakers start getting stressed. If you are using distortion in your signal chain, you won't be able to hear the speakers being stressed before they're blown. And, even with a clean signal, if you put the 210 on the bottom you'd probably blow the speakers before you knew there was a problem because your ears are on your head, not down by your ankles.
 
It's probably the loudest solution to run the head into the single 4x10 cabinet.

-the 2x10 should not be able to be rewired for a 16 ohms load, since the drivers are either 4 ohm or 16 ohm.

-the 4x10 should not be able to be rewired for a 4 ohms load, since the drivers are most likely 8 ohms.

-Peavey heads do have a reputation for being quite stable at low loads, but that reputation was earned back in the day when a Peavey head was a big piece of iron in a wooden case, weighing in at 40+ lbs. The newer models like yours use class D power modules and those are really not happy when you undercut the minimum resistance.

So what you can do is to connect all cabs to the head, but that results in the 2x10 getting the same amount of power the 4x10 does, so four of your six drivers run at half their potential while 2 are going all out, creating a bottleneck - and I'd guess that the 410 running by itself without the bottleneck of the 210 will produce more volume than the stack.


The easiest solution to get more firepower out of this rack is the acquisition of another power amp, feeding it the DI out of the MiniMega (hoping that it's strong enough, but the presence of a PAD switch on the output suggests that it's capable of line level)

You'll find a second hand 19" PA amp with 200-300 watts into 8 ohms for less than $200 in your local classifieds, most likely sub $100 if you search for a bit.
 
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It's probably the loudest solution to run the head into the single 4x10 cabinet.

-the 2x10 should not be able to be rewired for a 16 ohms load, since the drivers are either 4 ohm or 16 ohm.

-the 4x10 should not be able to be rewired for a 4 ohms load, since the drivers are most likely 8 ohms.

-Peavey heads do have a reputation for being quite stable at low loads, but that reputation was earned back in the day when a Peavey head was a big piece of iron in a wooden case, weighing in at 40+ lbs. The newer models like yours use class D power modules and those are really not happy when you undercut the minimum resistance.

So what you can do is to connect all cabs to the head, but that results in the 2x10 getting the same amount of power the 4x10 does, so four of your six drivers run at half their potential while 2 are going all out, creating a bottleneck - and I'd guess that the 410 running by itself without the bottleneck of the 210 will produce more volume than the stack.


The easiest solution to get more firepower out of this rack is the acquisition of another power amp, feeding it the DI out of the MiniMega (hoping that it's strong enough, but the presence of a PAD switch on the output suggests that it's capable of line level)

You'll find a second hand 19" PA amp with 200-300 watts into 8 ohms for less than $200 in your local classifieds, most likely sub $100 if you search for a bit.
The limiting factor is still the speaker’s the OP owns. Nothing is going to change that.
 
It's probably the loudest solution to run the head into the single 4x10 cabinet.
AFAIK The 610 should be slightly louder.

RMS Power Handling
410 = 400W
210= 200W

The 410 will be 3dB more efficient than the 210. The 610 will be about 1.65dB more efficient than the 410.

Because both cabs are 8 ohms, they will share power equally. The RMS power handling of the 610 is 400W, just like the 410.

So the only gain you get is the ~1.65dB in efficiency.

The OP may prefer the sound of the 610.

Adding a matching 410 will double the power handling and increase sensitivity by ~3dB. So you get ~6dB more headroom.
 
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AFAIK The 610 should be slightly louder.

RMS Power Handling
410 = 400W
210= 200W

The 410 will be 3dB more efficient than the 210. The 610 will be about 1.65dB more efficient than the 410.

Because both cabs are 8 ohms, they will share power equally. The RMS power handling of the 610 is 400W, just like the 410.

So the only gain you get is the ~1.65dB in efficiency.

The OP may prefer the sound of the 610.

Adding a matching 410 will double the power handling and increase sensitivity by ~3dB. So you get ~6dB more headroom.

I'm not sure I can follow your math here. Should the 410 not be 6dB louder than the 210?

I thought doubling the speaker surface gets you +3dB and doubling the power gets you +3dB.
 
I'm not sure I can follow your math here. Should the 410 not be 6dB louder than the 210?

I thought doubling the speaker surface gets you +3dB and doubling the power gets you +3dB.

AFAIK Peavey does not publish Sensitivity ratings for the Headliner cabs. So let's just make something up for the math.

Let's say
  • 8 ohm 210 with 200W RMS power rating and 93dB 1W/1m Sensitivity [Calculated SPL at 200W = ~116dB]
  • 8 ohm 410 with 400W RMS power rating and 96dB 1W/1m Sensitivity [Calculated SPL at 400W = ~122dB]
The simplified formula I used for calculated SPL requires Sensitivity to be expressed at 1W/1m:
  • Calculated SPL = [Log(usable power) x 10] + Sensitivity
As you suggest, the 1W/1m sensitivity from doubling the drivers goes up 3dB. If you double the usable power, you get another 3dB, so the 410 can play 6dB louder.

If we add the 410 and 210 we get
  • 4 ohm 610 with 400W power rating and ~97.65 1W/1m Sensitivity [Calculated SPL at 400W = ~123.67]
The part you probably are missing is the power rating of the 610 is the same as the 410. So you only get the ~1.65dB from the increased sensitivity. Why? Since the power is shared equally between two 8 ohm cabs, the combined power rating is 2 times the lowest limit [2 x 200 = 400W]

If you had a 16 ohm 210 that otherwise had the same specs, the combined 610 power rating would increase to 600W and the impedance would be ~5.33 ohms. [Calculated SPL at 600W = ~125.43dB] The difference is comprised of ~1.65dB from increased efficiency and ~1.76dB from raising the usable power from 400W to 600W

Explanation of 600W power rating:
  • ~56.57V at 16 ohms = ~200W (for 210)
  • ~56.57V at 8 ohms = ~400W (for 410)
  • ~56.57V at ~5.33 ohms = ~600W (total for 610)
 
AFAIK Peavey does not publish Sensitivity ratings for the Headliner cabs. So let's just make something up for the math.

Let's say
  • 8 ohm 210 with 200W RMS power rating and 93dB 1W/1m Sensitivity [Calculated SPL at 200W = ~116dB]
  • 8 ohm 410 with 400W RMS power rating and 96dB 1W/1m Sensitivity [Calculated SPL at 400W = ~122dB]
The simplified formula I used for calculated SPL requires Sensitivity to be expressed at 1W/1m:
  • Calculated SPL = [Log(usable power) x 10] + Sensitivity
As you suggest, the 1W/1m sensitivity from doubling the drivers goes up 3dB. If you double the usable power, you get another 3dB, so the 410 can play 6dB louder.

If we add the 410 and 210 we get
  • 4 ohm 610 with 400W power rating and ~97.65 1W/1m Sensitivity [Calculated SPL at 400W = ~123.67]
The part you probably are missing is the power rating of the 610 is the same as the 410. So you only get the ~1.65dB from the increased sensitivity. Why? Since the power is shared equally between two 8 ohm cabs, the combined power rating is 2 times the lowest limit [2 x 200 = 400W]

If you had a 16 ohm 210 that otherwise had the same specs, the combined 610 power rating would increase to 600W and the impedance would be ~5.33 ohms. [Calculated SPL at 600W = ~125.43dB] The difference is comprised of ~1.65dB from increased efficiency and ~1.76dB from raising the usable power from 400W to 600W

Explanation of 600W power rating:
  • ~56.57V at 16 ohms = ~200W (for 210)
  • ~56.57V at 8 ohms = ~400W (for 410)
  • ~56.57V at ~5.33 ohms = ~600W (total for 610)
My mind was tripping over the rock that the 410 in the 610 scenario is only fed 200W - so it should be -3dB from the full potential.
That would mean a 210 playing at 116dB and a 410 playing at 119dB versus a 410 playing at 122dB,
but I have no idea how cabinets add up.
 
I have no idea how cabinets add up.

My crude workups for the 610 gave ~123.65dB and ~123.67dB.

If you put 116dB and 119dB into this formula:
1741078071631.png

the result is ~123.65dB


Assuming:
  • LA = 116
  • LB = 119
1741078872475.png


Real world will be a bit less, as the summing is not perfect.
 
My crude workups for the 610 gave ~123.65dB and ~123.67dB.

If you put 116dB and 119dB into this formula:
View attachment 7166866
the result is ~123.65dB


Assuming:
  • LA = 116
  • LB = 119
View attachment 7166870

Real world will be a bit less, as the summing is not perfect.
Since I consider myself an experienced layman and you are the resident Talkbass mathematician, I will simply bow to your wisdom.

In the real world, where phase coupling, comb filtering, the room you're in and of course the massive SPL provided by the guitars and drums play a large role, a 1,67 dB difference might or might not make a difference - also having more speaker area to beam into the room can help or hinder your cause.