4 ohm or 8 ohm cab?

[Al Kraft]

I really don't get this 8 ohm fever.

For me, until recently (until Ampeg have released its Venture cabs, all 8 ohm including the 2x12), there was a standard in the industry, like Mesa Subway for example:
- 8 ohm for 1x12 or 2x10 cabs
- 4 ohm for 2x12 or 4x10 cab

It's consistent.

You can built a modular rig with a 1x212 + 2x112: 1, 2, 3, or 4 drivers each with the same nominal impedence, balanced power distribution between drivers. Total impedence from 8 ohm (1x12) to 2 ohm (4x12).
Or you can do the same with 10 inch drivers, from 2x10 to 8x10 with a resulting impedence from 8 ohm to 2 ohm

What's the problem?

--------------

Now, if you start with a 2x12 @ 8 ohm, what happens?

• With a single 2x12 @ 8 ohm, you only get 1/2 power from the amp. Where's the benefit?
• If you mix a 2x12 @ 8 ohm can with a 1x12 @ 8 ohm cab or a 2x10 @ 8 ohm, you get unbalanced load between the cabs. Some cabs will sound weak, others will be stressed, what's the benefit?
• You could in theory go up to 4 cabs of 212, to reach a total 2 ohm load, but seriously who needs that?

I don't see any benefits, only drawbacks. I don't get it.

I think the logic started to break down when 800 and 1200 Watt heads that weigh around 7 pounds became common fare. Years back when I used 140 Watt at 4 Ohm or 350 Watt at 4 Ohm heads it made sense to have multi-driver cabs at 4 Ohms.

Today, as was mentioned earlier, many of the very affordable Class D heads can deliver 400 to 500 watts into 8 Ohm loads. To me that's usually plenty for 2 10" or 12" speakers. Not to mention that I find today's cabs to be more difference than the ones in days gone by.

I'm not saying that's the answer, but I suspect it is a reasonable possibility.

 

[moody]

It's better for a 212 to be 4 ohm, I'm even surprised they offer a 8 ohm alternative:

Given the lack of knowledge in the general musician community, at some point somebody is going to plug that 4ohm cab with another cab into an amp that only has a 4ohm min and kill it. That makes 4 ohm cabs harder to find - but there are also fewer dead amps out there.

 

[agedhorse]

Given the lack of knowledge in the general musician community, at some point somebody is going to plug that 4ohm cab with another cab into an amp that only has a 4ohm min and kill it. That makes 4 ohm cabs harder to find - but there are also fewer dead amps out there.

Sure that can happen but that’s not the fault of the cabinet.

We’ve made 4 ohm 212’s, 215’s and 410’s (with suitable power handling) at multiple companies I designed for without all this angst and trouble.

An 800 watt, 8 ohm, multiple driver cabinet is not being used to its potential when only being fed 200-400 watts.

 

[BOOG]

As an example, 2 x 8 ohm 112's will be exactly the same volume and maximum SPL as 1 x 4 ohm 212 (of the same brand/model line). Since the OP's amp can drive the 4 ohm 212 to rated power exactly the same a 2 x 8 ohm 112's, there is no difference. IF the OP decides to add another 212 to the rig, there's nothing stopping him as the amp he has is rated to drive a 2 ohm load. If he changes to an amp that does not handle a 2 ohm load, then obviously a 2 ohm load won't work.

So, simple scenario…
I’m going to plug in two GK 4ohm-212’s into my WD800, and then I’m going to swap those out and replace them with two GK 8ohm-212’s. Are you telling me that in real world on a gig, that I’m going to notice a significant difference?
Further, are you telling me that two GK 4ohm-212’s is about the same volume as four GK 8ohm-212’s

 

[agedhorse]

So, simple scenario…
I’m going to plug in two GK 4ohm-212’s into my WD800, and then I’m going to swap those out and replace them with two GK 8ohm-212’s. Are you telling me that in real world on a gig, that I’m going to notice a significant difference?
Further, are you telling me that two GK 4ohm-212’s is about the same volume as four GK 8ohm-212’s

In this SPECIFIC example, the power delivered to the total load will be the same at 4 and 2 ohms because the amp is rated at 800 watts into 4 or 2 ohms. IF you want a one cabinet option however, 1 x 4 ohm 212 will be ~3dB louder than 1 x 8 ohm 212. This is not true of all amps however, some amps (especially rack mount power amps) will deliver say 400 watts into 8 ohms, 800 watts into 4 ohms and 1600 watts into 2 ohms.

Since most (not all) players using 212's, 215's or 410's are also looking for a practical one cabinet application. I also support our international touring team where we have a good number of Subway rigs on the road all over the world in high profile applications. For those that need for the big rig look and feel, many of these players are using 2 amps and 2 or x 410's or 2 or 4 x 212's or 2 or 4 x 215's and each cabinet is receiving 800 watts. There are a couple that are using customized Subway (style) 810's, multiple 4 ohm cabinets with multiple amps. These are all well outside the average TalkBass player however.

I am not considering 4 x 8 ohm 212's in any of my comments, but since you asked, there will be ~2dB difference in maximum SPL between the two rigs at the cost and inconvenience of the additional cabinets.

 

[BOOG]

In this SPECIFIC example, the power delivered to the total load will be the same at 4 and 2 ohms because the amp is rated at 800 watts into 4 or 2 ohms. IF you want a one cabinet option however, 1 x 4 ohm 212 will be ~3dB louder than 1 x 8 ohm 212. This is not true of all amps however, some amps (especially rack mount power amps) will deliver say 400 watts into 8 ohms, 800 watts into 4 ohms and 1600 watts into 2 ohms.

Since most (not all) players using 212's, 215's or 410's are also looking for a practical one cabinet application. I also support our international touring team where we have a good number of Subway rigs on the road all over the world in high profile applications. For those that need for the big rig look and feel, many of these players are using 2 amps and 2 or x 410's or 2 or 4 x 212's or 2 or 4 x 215's and each cabinet is receiving 800 watts. There are a couple that are using customized Subway (style) 810's, multiple 4 ohm cabinets with multiple amps. These are all well outside the average TalkBass player however.

I am not considering 4 x 8 ohm 212's in any of my comments, but since you asked, there will be ~2dB difference in maximum SPL between the two rigs at the cost and inconvenience of the additional cabinets.

Thank you! That clarifies nicely

 

[All The Way]

No one ever “gets all the watts” unless you leave your volume all the way up and only produce perfect sine waves. A lower nominal impedance will cause the amp to potentially produce the rated wattage as voltage increases. If I switch between an identical 8 and 4 ohm cab, yes it’s louder sooner on the volume knob (more current flow at lower voltage). If it’s loud enough, you’re done. If not, try more speakers. If you have to over crank the volume, try a bigger amp. My experience has been that maximum watt ratings are the least important factor in putting together a rig that does what you need, sounds good, and is reliable. And I use high wattage amps.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Given the lack of knowledge in the general musician community, at some point somebody is going to plug that 4ohm cab with another cab into an amp that only has a 4ohm min and kill it. That makes 4 ohm cabs harder to find - but there are also fewer dead amps out there.

We are talking about 2x12 cabs. I can only think of a few that offer there 2x12 as an 8 Ohm, the majority of them are 4 Ohms and have been for a looong time.

Now if we are talking about a single driver cab, you got something. But the 2x12 by most manufacturers and players, are thought of as a single cab solution.

 

[B-string]

We are talking about 2x12 cabs. I can only think of a few that offer there 2x12 as an 8 Ohm, the majority of them are 4 Ohms and have been for a looong time.

Now if we are talking about a single driver cab, you got something. But the 2x12 by most manufacturers and players, are thought of as a single cab solution.

I consider my 8ohm 212 a small venue solution although it can and does carry a much larger venue. It is light and easy to load out/load in. I have a couple other 8ohm cabs including a 215 8ohm. I have only one 4ohm cab and that is a NEO 412. Maybe I'm a loooong time throw back to trying to fill a venue against guitar and keys with a 100 watt or even a 280 watt tube amp. The speaker area got me there much faster/easier than packing more than one gig head and the cabs to boot.
In those days 16ohm unless you were looking for "HiFi" speakers were rare special order but worth the initial cost (much cheaper than amp heads).

 

[Al Kraft]

I consider my 8ohm 212 a small venue solution although it can and does carry a much larger venue. It is light and easy to load out/load in. I have a couple other 8ohm cabs including a 215 8ohm. I have only one 4ohm cab and that is a NEO 412. Maybe I'm a loooong time throw back to trying to fill a venue against guitar and keys with a 100 watt or even a 280 watt tube amp. The speaker area got me there much faster/easier than packing more than one gig head and the cabs to boot.
In those days 16ohm unless you were looking for "HiFi" speakers were rare special order but worth the initial cost (much cheaper than amp heads).

IME you make a great point about speaker area (assuming other driver and cab specifications are reasonably close) usually being the fastest way to a bigger and fuller sound. For those of us who recall the days of lower powered amps (compared to today) being common, multiple speakers/cabs were how most of us we got to where we needed to be.

I have rarely found situations where doubling power got me as much as doubling speakers/cabs. Admittedly if I was trying to power one of Duke's AK cabs with a 175 Watt head, more power would make sense there, but that's due to his design approach. There will always be exceptions, but in general having let's say 3000 Watts to feed something like a GK NEO 212 cab or an honest 300 to 400 Watts to feed that same cab isn't likely going to make much difference in output, but could result in a spectacular failure of the drivers.

IME, Watts matter up to a point (i.e. having enough to get you the volume you need while preserving headroom), but they are usually not where I focus most of my attention when trying to get a bigger or fuller sound. FWIW I rarely find that that with multiple cabs or multi-driver cabs that my Carbine M6 or 9 is actually much different (volume-wise) from my M3. Same would be true for my GK MB500 and 800. I'll even go so far as to say that in most situations my Mesa D-350 and D-800 seem equally capable volume-wise. I recognize that these data points are in my own use cases, but from what I read on TB, many folks experience similar results.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

I consider my 8ohm 212 a small venue solution although it can and does carry a much larger venue. It is light and easy to load out/load in. I have a couple other 8ohm cabs including a 215 8ohm. I have only one 4ohm cab and that is a NEO 412. Maybe I'm a loooong time throw back to trying to fill a venue against guitar and keys with a 100 watt or even a 280 watt tube amp. The speaker area got me there much faster/easier than packing more than one gig head and the cabs to boot.
In those days 16ohm unless you were looking for "HiFi" speakers were rare special order but worth the initial cost (much cheaper than amp heads).

All of the 2x12's ever made by Genz-Benz, Genzler, Mesa Subway, Darkglass, Barefaced and many others were and are only available as 4 Ohm cabs.
They settled on using single 8 Ohm speakers for this, which when using a 2.67 or 2 Ohm head makes for a great flexible system where you can add their 1x12 that is 8 Ohm for "more" and all speakers are getting the same power.

Small space or low volume needs, bring the single 12.
Fuller sound for small to large gigs in a single cab, use the 2x12.
Need more... put the single 12 on top of the 2x12 for an evenly distributed power wise 3x12.

This has worked great for myself and others here.

Yes, GK, MarkBass and a few others offer an 8 Ohm 2x12 cab, if using a 4 min head and doubling is often needed, use it.
The above flexible solution using a 2x12 and a single 12 for a variety of situations, when paired will have the single receiving more power.

 

[Al Kraft]

I agree that in this day of high-powered, 2 Ohm capable amps, the 4 Ohm cab thing is pretty much a non-issue and offers a lot of flexibility (including 2.67 Ohm resultant load cab combinations).

 

[Jefenator]

When I had a 2x12 I used it standalone most of the time and found that 4Ω was great for getting optimal wattage out of my solid state heads.
I augmented it with an 8Ω 1x12 a few times (with a 2.67Ω stable power amp of course) and that worked great. It usually wasn't necessary, but it did sound pretty righteous when I did it.
I avoided using the 2x12 on quieter gigs. I much prefer a smaller 8Ω cab for that and now I just hook up an extra one of those in parallel when I need to be loud. (My monster stack days are behind me – YMMV.)

 

[Don2020]

I'm a bit late to this thread but I am exclusively using my Legacy 800 now. I have posted similar data on a couple other threads. I went a different route and own four 8-ohm 10-inch speakers (Barefaced One10s, 250W each, more expensive overall of course). While I have only actually used one or two at a time (same when I was using my 700RB), I can run any combo of the four. I have only connected all four in my house. The change from two to four cabs (800W max either way) at moderate volume in my house is noticeable, as expected. If you get a 2-12 cab, as others have said, you're going to be LOUD. Adding 10's to that is not going to be needed. Driving two neo 12's will move enough air for most gigs. Since the GK 2-12 will accept 800W, and you'll need 200-300W in reality, maybe the 4-ohm cab is right for you. I say that being an 8-ohm cab guy myself......I spent a lot of years using a 4-10 on a 1-15 stack.

 

[pepj]

4ohm for maxing the amp when running one cab.
And if your amp is 2ohm then no issue adding a second cab.

 

[chris_b]

I'd get a 4 ohm 212, and later, an 8 ohm matching 112.

Then you have the choice of 3 rigs.

 

[Clark Westfield]

I'd get a 4 ohm 212, and later, an 8 ohm matching 112.

Then you have the choice of 3 rigs.

In the process of doing this now.

A 112 is on my radar to do just this.