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4 or 8 ohms?
- Thread starter elwaupo
- Start date
When I go to work at the day gig I'm dealing with equipment that has unequivocal ratings. I know when I hang a lighting/sound rig in an arena the rigging gear has accurate load ratings written on all of it. This stuff all has a safety factor built in that is between 3 and 5 to one. In other words if the rated safe working load is 100lbs I know the actual breaking strength is between 300 and 500lbs depending on the manufacturer. Even sport climbing gear often used in stage rigging like carabiners and sewn slings have clearly defined ratings. The numbers on them almost always refer to breaking strength and have no safety factor built in. Either way you have the information you need to make the decisions you need to make. These ratings and their methodology is no secret, it's all readily available from the manufacturers.
Not so with speaker cabinets. If manufacturers of speaker cabinets wanted to be honest they'd give you all the specs including points of distortion and failure in easy to comprehend terms so you could make accurate comparisons and decisions. For the most part they've proven they don't want to be honest though rather that they want to play on buyers sense of bigger is better and just sell them stuff. The only way it's gonna change is if you demand it and let them know they're not dealing with drooling morons anymore.
Not so with speaker cabinets. If manufacturers of speaker cabinets wanted to be honest they'd give you all the specs including points of distortion and failure in easy to comprehend terms so you could make accurate comparisons and decisions. For the most part they've proven they don't want to be honest though rather that they want to play on buyers sense of bigger is better and just sell them stuff. The only way it's gonna change is if you demand it and let them know they're not dealing with drooling morons anymore.
that's all well and good, but let's say you get another head that will NOT handle 2 ohms - something you fall in love with that different (We do that now and then, you know...)?
I just don't see the "advantage" in using a cab that, by design, may limit you. What advantage are you getting by using 4 ohm cabs?
So the question become this: Does the additional sonic output of 4ohm cabs outweigh the inherent potential limitations they impose?
I ask this as a guy who runs two 8ohm cabs using a mid-powered amp (Ashdown ABM500) and finds that he has more headroom than he knows what to do with. True, I'm not in a loud metal band - but I suspect that I could keep up with darn near any guitarist/drummer with the rig I have (should I want to!)
The advantage is if you only use one cab, you get more power out of a 4ohm-rated solid state power amp. In my 20+years of playing, I have only ever briefly (maybe a few months) used 2 cabs together - so a 4ohm single cab is definitely the way to go for me.
However, as mentioned earlier, my 4ohm 210 Avatar is definitely not able to take the power it supposedly can handle... my 4ohm 410 Marshall cab, however, has no problem.
I don't see any potential limitations of any kind. That said I've used a pre/power set up of one kind or another since the Sixties. The impedance of your speakers is something that one has to be aware of whenever you change your amplifier. If you have one 8Ω cabinet and a SS amp you have to know that you are not going to get its full output. It might be fine in one case but not in another. I seem to recall some problem with the limiter of the Little Mark amp running into an 8Ω load.
As I said earlier people putting together a PA system wouldn't thing twice in connecting four 8Ω sub-woofers to a sub amp. It's a perfectly natural thing to do. It's only because a typical bass amp can't go lower that 4Ω that we are having this conversation.
Way back when I had an amp that had an LED power meter attached. According to that I was using about 50W per channel. The amp was capable of 200 per. On an average gig I doubt I'm using more than a couple of hundred at any one moment in time.
Is this just pure speculation or have you gigged with any of these?
Just got back from bass central to shop around and they turned me onto the DNA 210 4 ohm. I said I wanted a 4 ohm because I didn't want to lug around two cabs, wanted to get the most out of my shuttle 6.0. I really love the dimensions / handles / where the tweeter is located. Sounds great, i mean, i was in the store so I didn't push it, but with barely any volume dialed up on the shuttle it sounded nice, even on the B string. Guys were telling me speaker size doesn't matter, much of what I read around here, so if other 2x12's, 2x15's can handle that much power why can't a 2x10?
The guys at bass central seem to think it'll get loud and low enough and handle the 600 watt from my shuttle fine.
FWIW I've been gigging for 20 years, in everything from bars to arenas, and only *very* briefly ever used more than one cab (210 & 215, didn't like the combination after a couple months - this was about 15 years ago). So for me 4 ohms makes sense in my current rig - I feel confident in saying I'm never going to need to add a 2nd cab. YMMV
right! Who would run over 500watts to a 2-10 anyway. someone's gonna yell at me for that one.
I run two Eden 4-ohm 210s: a D210XLT (label says 350w) and a D210XST (label says 500w) off a QSC PLX1602 (500w/side). That's my "big" rig. That said, I'm don't think I've ever pushed the volume knob on the pre up past 5, even with 2 loud guitarists and a loud drummer. I also run a dbx 266XL as a hard limiter.
I like this setup so much that the only thing I'm considering replacing it with is a small, lightweight head (ala GK MB800), and that's more of a "I'd kinda like someday, maybe....." feeling.
I would go with an 8 Ohm 2x10, most 210's can't take many watts so you don't want to pound them with watts at 4 Ohms, most heads won't go below 4 Ohms and so 8 Ohm cabs allow you to expand. Since watts aren't what make volume but the surface area of the cones I would get as many drivers as possible within reason and so the 8 Ohm seems like a better choice all around to me. Cheers.
So what about the guy who has already gone the two x 8 ohm cabs routeand just want one cab? Where's the benefit of 8 ohms then?
Also how are watts not = to volume? I'm surelying going to get more sound out of 600 watts than 375 , atleast maybe I won't but i won't be clipping to reach the same volume.
Also how are watts not = to volume? I'm surelying going to get more sound out of 600 watts than 375 , atleast maybe I won't but i won't be clipping to reach the same volume.
DNA DNS-210 specs:
Power handling 700 W RMS, 1400 W Peak
Impedance 4 or 8 Ω
Sensitivity @ 8 Ω 103dB @2.83V/1M
SPL @ Maximum rated power 134 dB SPL max
Frequency response 34Hz to 14KHz
Size 21" x 23.75" x 16"
Weight 52lb
Coverage pattern 60 degree
Tuning Flaired Shelf port 49Hz
Eden D-210XST specs:
Speakers EC-1060XS Cast Frame
Tweeter E-2700 Cast Bell
Crossover 3.5kHz @18db
Power Handling 500W RMS
Freq. Response 30hz - 14khz ±2dB
Sensitivity 103dB SPL@1W1M
Impedance 4Ω or 8Ω
Dimensions 23"w x 18"h x 18.5"d
Weight 59 LBS
the Mesa 2x10 handles 600 watts btw. I bought a mesa 1516b off of a guy that was downsizing to a single mesa 2x10.
As far as ohms go, I always prefer 8 ohms. It just makes it more idiot proof. Every amp (meaning bass head) can handle 8 ohm loads. Most amps can handle 4 ohms. Only a few can handle 2 ohms, and of those, not all actually DO handle 2 ohms!
There is also the old soundguy wives tale that bass bins like to be higher impedance. I am not sure if there is any science behind that, but I just feel like I am better off with an 4ohm load vs a 2 ohm load. I know most amps are happier pusing 8 or 4.
As far as ohms go, I always prefer 8 ohms. It just makes it more idiot proof. Every amp (meaning bass head) can handle 8 ohm loads. Most amps can handle 4 ohms. Only a few can handle 2 ohms, and of those, not all actually DO handle 2 ohms!
There is also the old soundguy wives tale that bass bins like to be higher impedance. I am not sure if there is any science behind that, but I just feel like I am better off with an 4ohm load vs a 2 ohm load. I know most amps are happier pusing 8 or 4.
Personally, I wouldnt put 500 watts into any 210, no matter what its rating; I dont think theres enough surface area to benefit from all that wattage.
Headroom is overrated. Overpowering is simply unwise (downright foolish imo).
And, personally, Id never run an amp at 2-ohm load, no matter what its rating, unless it wasnt anything critical or an amp I care about.
I have a 4-ohm 212 just because I KNOW I wont be pairing it with another cab, as its just my stage cab, and Im always direct into the PA.
And I have a couple matching 8-ohm 410s if I felt the need to push more air.
Headroom is overrated. Overpowering is simply unwise (downright foolish imo).
And, personally, Id never run an amp at 2-ohm load, no matter what its rating, unless it wasnt anything critical or an amp I care about.
I have a 4-ohm 212 just because I KNOW I wont be pairing it with another cab, as its just my stage cab, and Im always direct into the PA.
And I have a couple matching 8-ohm 410s if I felt the need to push more air.
This has been said here already, several times, but some seem to either not get it, or just want to ignore it. Power ratings on spkr cabs are the thermal limit for the voice coil. Period. Just because a cab has a 500 watt rating, does NOT mean it can actually handle 500 watts. In fact, it would be closer to HALF of that, without distorting. A 2x10, even one rated for 600 watts, will not get any louder because it's a 4 ohm cab, than it would if it were an 8 ohm cab. Watts DO NOT equal volume. Volume is created by the spkrs, so 2 10's, no matter their power rating, or impedance, will more or less all make about the same amount of volume, within reason. The idea that 500 watts at 4 ohms through a 210 will be significantly louder than 300 watts at 8 ohms through a comparable 210 is nonsense.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
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- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Hogwash.
More hogwash.
The most you can expect a 2x10 ten to actually handle before reaching driver excursion limits is 200 watts, no matter what the 'specs' say. The highest sensitivity possible is 100 dB/watt. And most 2x10s fall short of both those figures. Taking that into consideration debating whether an amp is able to deliver 500 watts into a 4 ohm 2x10 or 350 watts into an 8 ohm 2x10 is a purely masturbatory exercise.
Hey, I'm just the messenger here. However, David Nordschow assured me personally that the DNS 410 will handle an honest 1,400 watts. Who am I to disagree?
Unless youre really cranking the amp , you could probably get away with one 8 ohm and one 4 ohm cab ,I think it works out to around a 3.2 ohm load on a 4 ohm minimum load amp . Id get the 210 at 8 ohms and if you wanted to add than another , then get 8 ohm as well , but if a 4 ohm came up at a price you couldnt refuse you could use it for larger gigs or on its own ... the best of both worlds .
