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"4 Pole" Speakon???

#21
Bongolation says, "Connect me with somebody in manufacturing, I have a serious question" Secretary, "Connecting you with Dave", thinking he's never busy... You should have asked Dave what his function was. Dave sharpens the saw blades for the Table saws... The only question he could answer is.. "How many fingers you got?"

The clue was Hearing saws running in the background and Dave is screaming in the phone, "Naw nobody here knows how to wire amps... Yes this is SWR... Naw Nobody here.." He hangs up and says under his breath, "why would somebody call the woodshop and ask about wiring?"

I guaranty somebody there actually knows how amps work. But with modern Tech Support the English you hear might be some guy in BOMBAY talking in a thick Indian accent. SWR? Why would you call tech support to ask about a woodshop question? Let me connect you with Dave, he's never doing any thing. BOB
 
#23
chadds said:
Now two of us have suggested you just order the correct cables.
Click to expand...
Ignorantly of the problem, which is that there are no "correct" cables. Regardless of how many pins are in use, they will match "standard" Speakon pinout -- which SWR does not use anyway. Will they work? Maybe. Do they match SWR's NL4MP wiring? No.

I'd like to see SWR's pinout. Doesn't seem like an incredibly unreasonable request, and then the solution will be clear.
 
#25
+1/-1 to +1/-1 should work for most applications.

I know Ampeg requires +1/+2 to +1/-1 for their mono bridged applications (B4R and SVT4Pro) which they call a "mono bridged cable"

and GK requires the use of a 4 conducter cable for their biamp system.

I have no clue about SWR.
 
#26
projectMalamute said:
SWR amps are 1+/1-
Click to expand...
Actually they aren't, though that pinout on any NL* plug should work -- though SWR support says it won't.

I believe that SWR's NL4MP jack runs +1 plus bridged -1/-2 terminals with +2 open (which may effectively amount to the same thing as +1 and -1), but I can't tell without disassembling the entire amp. I can see that two pins are bridged, which would not be the case in a conventional +1/-1 setup.

Having given up on SWR support ever giving me any sense at all, I've requested some schematics in hopes that the heavens will part and all will then be revealed. FMIC support drones do seem to be able to send schematic PDFs, even if they don't know what a "pinout diagram" is or that there are different Speakons. :rollno:
 
#28
projectMalamute said:
SWR amps are 1+/1-

Just plug the thing in.

It will work.

I have 4 pin and 2 pin plugs.

Both work fine.

1+/1-.

Even for bridged mode.
Click to expand...


I have no clue but I agree. I looked at some of the SWR stuff and they provide a seperate Jack for Bridged Mono. It would make sense to me that the Pinout on that Jack would just be 1+ 1- why would you need or want a different Pinout? Though they could certainly save money by offering just a 4 conductor Jack on the A jack.
 
#29
Bongolation said:
Actually they aren't, though that pinout on any NL* plug should work -- though SWR support says it won't.

I believe that SWR's NL4MP jack runs +1 plus bridged -1/-2 terminals with +2 open (which may effectively amount to the same thing as +1 and -1), but I can't tell without disassembling the entire amp. I can see that two pins are bridged, which would not be the case in a conventional +1/-1 setup.

Having given up on SWR support ever giving me any sense at all, I've requested some schematics in hopes that the heavens will part and all will then be revealed. FMIC support drones do seem to be able to send schematic PDFs, even if they don't know what a "pinout diagram" is or that there are different Speakons. :rollno:
Click to expand...

I have used the same speakon NL4F cables, three Carver and two Pro Co Fat Max, on two SWR Bass 750s and two Goliath IIIs, a Goliath SR. a Goliath Jr., a Henry 8x8, two Aguilar GS112s, Two EA CxL112s and an iAMP800 and two Bergantino ext cabs. over a period of ten years. They were clear loud and outrageous. Unless SWR just came out with a new amp with different wiring I can't see the problem.:hmm:
 
#30
According to the schematics I finally got from SWR, the Goliath III and IV NL4MP Speakon jacks are wired:

+1 = Positive

-1 & +2 = bridged and go to negative [!]

-2 = Open

This arrangement escapes me, and was the bridging I saw and referred to earlier, but should work with a regular NL2FC 2-Pole Speakon plug.

Amp NL4MPs less obscurely are:

+1 = Positive

-1 = Negative

+2 = Open

-2 = Open

So, it appears that SWR support was wrong, but the Goliath III wiring still appears non-standard and potentially dangerous with connections to non-SWR 4-Pole amp jacks. Maybe. :confused:
 
#31
Only thing I would like to add is that while a two pole plug will work with a four pole socket (+1 -1) a four pole plug will NOT even fit into a two pole socket. The four pole connector appears to be the de-facto standard on all the equipment I own.

I too have standardized on the Neutrik brand and I am converting all of the phone plug speaker cabling that I own to NL4 Speakons.

Paul

Paul
 
#32
BassmanPaul said:
Only thing I would like to add is that while a two pole plug will work with a four pole socket (+1 -1) a four pole plug will NOT even fit into a two pole socket.
[...]
I too have standardized on the Neutrik brand and I am converting all of the phone plug speaker cabling that I own to NL4 Speakons.
Click to expand...
In either case, then, is there any possible reason not to use the NL2** instead of the NL4** for any of these 2-conductor monophonic applications?
 
#36
Bongolation said:
According to the schematics I finally got from SWR, the Goliath III and IV NL4MP Speakon jacks are wired:

+1 = Positive

-1 & +2 = bridged and go to negative [!]

-2 = Open
Click to expand...

OK so a normal 2 wire cable would work from a one channel amp, or from one channel of a two channel amp.

In bridged mode, using a normally wired, four conductor, 4-pole to 4-pole, would work fine. Assuming, that the amp wouldn't mind have channel 1-, and channel 2+ connected at the speaker.

On my QSC RMX1450 pin-out is as follows:

Channel 1: 1+, 1-, 2+, 2-
Channel 2: 1+, 1-

Say you're bi-amping a cab wired 1+, 1- to woofer, 2+, 2- to tweeter: just use a standard four conductor, four pole cable.

Bridge mode: channel 1+ is +, channel 2+ is -. So, you need an oddly wired cable, or an oddly wired cab. (Again assuming the cabs odd wiring won't fry your amp. I don't know. Ask your amp maker.)

What a PITA. For bridge mode I just use Dual Banana to Speakon. If I bridged often, I'd add a breakout panel, with a third Speakon jack, wired 1+ to 1+, 1- to 2+.
 

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