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410 and 210 cabs together

R

RotoRick

Jul 20, 2012
98
1
#1
On another thread I mentioned running a 410 and 210 cab together. I got alot of comments like if you do, don't have both cabs the same ohms otherwise the 210 will be overworked.

Or have the 410 at 4ohms and the 210 at 8 ohms if your amp will handle 2 ohms, so that you don't harm the 210 cab with too much wattage going to it.

This got me to wondering because Mark Bass recommends this setup especially when using their rear ported 410.

So I emailed Mark Bass and this is what they said.
When you run a 410 and 210 you are not splitting the wattage between 2 cabs, you are splitting the wattage between all speakers so I would have nothing to worry about and that lot of people do this.

Since Mark Bass heads only go down to 4ohms, I would have to use 2 8 ohm cabinets for this to work and having the power go to 6 speakers is better than having it all go to only 4 speakers and the sound is better as well.

What do you guys think ?
 
#2
I think that Markbass gave you a poor reply. If both cabs are the same impedance load, your amp effectively sees them as the same, and they each get half of the power produced by the amp...so you're giving each of your speakers in the 210 twice as much power as the speakers in the 410.
 
#3
BurningSkies said:
I think that Markbass gave you a poor reply. If both cabs are the same impedance load, your amp effectively sees them as the same, and they each get half of the power produced by the amp...so you're giving each of your speakers in the 210 twice as much power as the speakers in the 410.
Click to expand...

This is my understanding as well.. Before I knew about this I ran a 410 at 4ohm and a 210 at 4 ohm. The 210 broke up sooner than the 410 because of the reason mentioned above.
 
#4
I think markbass lied to you to make a sale.

If you have two 8 Ohm cabs (regardless of how many or which speakers are in it) and a 4 Ohm head, the power will be split in half to each cab. Now if you have 4 speakers in one they will each get 1/8th of the power the head is supplying. The remaining cab will have half the power supplied to it, and depending on its configuration, the power will be distributed. If that is two speakers, then they each get 1/4 of the total power, if its one it gets half.

This is all written up in the stickies at the top of the forum.
 
#5
Markbass is correct. You would only worry if you had multiple speakers of different wattage handling and impedence. As it is, you are splitting power among all the speakers evenly. The amp doesn't know if you plugged in two 8 ohm cabs or 1 4ohm cab. It sees it all as 1 load and distributes power to the load accordingly. Just be sure your speakers can handle the wattage and you'll be fine.
 
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#6
temmrich said:
Markbass is correct. You would only worry if you had multiple speakers of different wattage handling and impedence. As it is, you are splitting power among all the speakers evenly. The amp doesn't know if you plugged in two 8 ohm cabs or 1 4ohm cab. It sees it all as 1 load and distributes power to the load accordingly. Just be sure your speakers can handle the wattage and you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

Is is erroneous. Each cab will receive the same power, and that power will be split up to the speakers within be that 4 or 2.

In fact the speakers in the 210 have different impedance than the speakers in the 410.
 
#7
If you're running a 410 at 8 ohms and a 210 at 8 ohms (head seeing it as a total load of 4 ohms) than the 410's 10" speakers have a different ohm rating than the 10"s in the 210..


If you have a 410 cab at 4 ohms and a 210 cab at 8 ohms than the 410's 10" speakers and the 210's 10" speakers have the same ohm rating because of the way they are wired. Because they would have the same resistance you would be getting equal power to the speakers in this case.
 
#9
It depends on the speakers in the cabs. If the 410 has (4) 16 ohm speakers in parallel and the 210 has (2) 16 ohm speakers in parallel, then they will all receive the same power. If the 210 has say, (2) 4 ohm speakers wired in series to produce the 8 ohm load, coupled with the aforementioned 410, then yes, there will be a power mismatch.
 
#11
I run a decently new SWR 2x10 on top of an acoustic 4x10 thats almost 30 years old and its very true that the 2x10 gets more power but ime thats not terrible. it isnt as efficient as two 4x10s per say but the to me, having a 2x10 closer to ear level helps with projection and the 4x10 still adds some good body to my tone.

Sorry i dont know where im going with this, all I wanted to say was its not efficient but to me it works fine
 
#12
lburton2 said:
If you're running a 410 at 8 ohms and a 210 at 8 ohms (head seeing it as a total load of 4 ohms) than the 410's 10" speakers have a different ohm rating than the 10"s in the 210..


If you have a 410 cab at 4 ohms and a 210 cab at 8 ohms than the 410's 10" speakers and the 210's 10" speakers have the same ohm rating because of the way they are wired. Because they would have the same resistance you would be getting equal power to the speakers in this case.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone for the info, well Markbass is out for a head choice but maybe thats for the best anyway, I know the big boys at Mesa and Ampeg have amps that will handle two cabs with different ohms and never break a sweat, looks like I will be looking at a M9 Carbine or a SVT pro 4.

Could still use Markbass Cabs cause they also sell in 4 or 8 ohm but don't know if those flyweight cabs can really handle serious power or not but they are cheaper by quite alot over ampeg neo or mesa powercabs.
 
#14
I am a better electronics engineer than I am a bassist and can say that the only reason that series connection is "worse" than parallel is this. If one speaker fails in a series connected array, there will be no sound out from any of the speakers. However in a parallel system, if one speaker blows then the other will surely follow. In a series array the first speaker to blow acts like a "fuse" and protects the others.

In a 4x12 or 4x10 you have to wire series parallel if you want a useful impedance.
 
#17
lburton2 said:
That was under the assumption of parallel wiring. As to my knowledge, it's not a good idea to run speakers in series.
Click to expand...

Series, as well as parallel wiring, is quite common and has no ill effects on performance. The only exception, as pointed out, is if you do lose a drive in a series connection, then the other drivers in that connection will not play. But electronically, and musically, series wiring has no other adverse effects.
 
#18
Either way, the story is that your amp doesn't know how many speakers are in a box, nor do they magically alot the power accordingly. They see an impedance load and then mete out their power according to that. In this case, if each cab is rated the same impedance, each cab gets the same amount of power, and therefore, the 210 is splitting that power in two, rather than the 410 which splits it in four.
 
#19
I ran across an 8 ohm Mesa Powerhouse 410 and an 8ohm Mesa Powerhouse 210 for a RIDICULOUS deal as a set, called Mesa before buying and asked them the same question you asked, and I was told the same thing you were told...

They said, don't worry... as far as your Big Block 750 is concerned, it's the same as running a 610 cab.

As in this thread, many people on this board gave me contrary information, but I decided to listen to Mesa instead of the TB innanet experts.

Why wouldn't I?

So, I bought them... and they sounded fantastic running together. I couldn't tell any difference in power distribution and it seemed like all was well. It looked like Mesa was right and TB was wrong.

UNTIL...

We started getting MUCH bigger gigs, and I started having to drive my amp much harder. Then, to me, the difference was clear. The 210 was running considerably harder than the 410 at higher volumes. When I really pushed the cabs hard, you could actually see it happening with your eyes... speaker movement with the 210 was considerably more noticeable than with the 410. The 410 was noticeably quieter than the 210, and the 210 was beginning to sound like it was farting out.

Again... at lower volumes, I didn't hear or see any power distribution problems, and the pair sounded fantastic together. But, once I pushed them really hard, the differences between the two cabs became pretty clear.

Personally, I still don't quite understand the physics behind it... but it was seeing/hearing it with my own eyes/ears that made the difference.
 

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