440 hz vs 432 hz ???

[Turnaround]

The universe vibrates at a freq. of 432 Hz. That is important to me as I feel music is the language of the universe.

Mathematically tuning to 432hz makes all notes a whole number, unlike 440hz where different notes have decimal's in their Hz make-up.

There's a problem though - it's how we measure time. Our musical vibrations, and that of the universe, are measured in cycles per second. But there's an error in the mathematical definition of a second, which we cumulatively adjust every 4 years by adding a day. If you correct our measurement of time to be cosmically correct you will find that 432 Hz is no longer the same as the cosmic vibration and all those lovely notes become fractions again, nasty fractions.

 

[F-Clef-Jef]

There's a problem though - it's how we measure time. Our musical vibrations, and that of the universe, are measured in cycles per second. But there's an error in the mathematical definition of a second, which we cumulatively adjust every 4 years by adding a day. If you correct our measurement of time to be cosmically correct you will find that 432 Hz is no longer the same as the cosmic vibration and all those lovely notes become fractions again, nasty fractions.

But a second is always "the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom". That never changes, so our measurement of frequencies is consistent. We'd be in some serious trouble if it wasn't!
The earth's trip around the sun takes 365.2425 days ( or 31,556,943.36 seconds), which is what causes the need for a "leap" year.

 

[Turnaround]

But a second is always "the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom". That never changes, so our measurement of frequencies is consistent. We'd be in some serious trouble if it wasn't!
The earth's trip around the sun takes 365.2425 days ( or 31,556,943.36 seconds), which is what causes the need for a "leap" year.

My comment was meant as a light-hearted look at cosmic periodicity. We can measure frequencies based on units that we as human beings have defined. We conventionally agree on things like a second (maybe), but then vary when it comes to how we measure temperature, or the value of a currency. However Leibniz and Kant maintain that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable. That makes it hard to measure frequency. Then what is 432 Hz? When you look at the continuum we call spacetime, it bring questions about space into questions about time. There's International Atomic Time, Terrestrial Time and Barycentric Dynamical Time. Which shall we use to determine the tuning of our basses? Do any or all of them result in frequencies we use in tuning that result in fractions of 1 Hertz? Does it matter?
If guess it does if one system makes you feel good. They all just make me feel confused. And in the end the time I consider important is the one established by my drummer -and it's rarely right.

 

[Geri O]

My comment was meant as a light-hearted look at cosmic periodicity. We can measure frequencies based on units that we as human beings have defined. We conventionally agree on things like a second (maybe), but then vary when it comes to how we measure temperature, or the value of a currency. However Leibniz and Kant maintain that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable. That makes it hard to measure frequency. Then what is 432 Hz? When you look at the continuum we call spacetime, it bring questions about space into questions about time. There's International Atomic Time, Terrestrial Time and Barycentric Dynamical Time. Which shall we use to determine the tuning of our basses? Do any or all of them result in frequencies we use in tuning that result in fractions of 1 Hertz? Does it matter?
If guess it does if one system makes you feel good. They all just make me feel confused. And in the end the time I consider important is the one established by my drummer -and it's rarely right.

Ouch!...

 

[202dy]

Everyone is responsible for time.

Most often the bass player is playing four to the bar. Or eighth notes. That means it's the bass is the most constant pulse in the tune. Drummer does a roll, bass player plays three, four. That (often) makes the bass the real time reference.

 

[reddesert]

My comment was meant as a light-hearted look at cosmic periodicity. ...
If guess it does if one system makes you feel good. They all just make me feel confused. And in the end the time I consider important is the one established by my drummer -and it's rarely right.

Just add one beat every 365 measures and you should be good.

Without distracting too much from the lightheartedness:
- we add a leap day every four years because the earth's revolution is close to 365.25 days.
- we add a leap second irregularly because the earth's rotation is slowing, and in the age of atomic clocks and GPS, this eventually builds up enough to be noticeable.
- The universe doesn't vibrate (whatever it means for the universe to vibrate) at some single magical frequency, be it 432 Hz or anything else. I don't know where that is coming from, it seems to be a persistent urban legend (cosmic legend?)

 

[mongo2]

Mathematically tuning to 432hz makes all notes a whole number,

No it doesn't...

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[Anders Barfod]

My vote is 435Hz... Most tuners has this frequency as their lowest calibration note. 430-432Hz is too detached for most people in the realm of pop and rock music (sounds a bit off).. Ok Highway to hell is around 426Hz so who knows...but 435Hz sound a bit more familiar to the ear and 440Hz adapted mind...

The good thing with 435Hz is that it takes some of the stress of when singing through you second passaggo as a male.. Especially males with thicker deeper voices from baritone to basses.. Briding and connecting is difficult with the big thick vocal chords... Pulling chest (starting to shout) or disconnecting (flipping into falsetto) is hard to avoid unless you do many weekly exercises... Also tenors high C or female high belts sound more pleasing to the ear just slightly lower...

 

[Turnaround]

Everyone is responsible for time.

Most often the bass player is playing four to the bar. Or eighth notes. That means it's the bass is the most constant pulse in the tune. Drummer does a roll, bass player plays three, four. That (often) makes the bass the real time reference.

I'll still blame the drummer. He's an easy target.

 

[Anders Barfod]

Funny how the equal temprement is so out of tune to the pythagoran tuning of the C-major scale..
When C=256Hz the A4=430.56HZ using equal temprement and is 432Hz when using pythagoran tuning..
THat means that the La (A) in the Do re mi (C major scale) is severly flat using modern 12-TET system..

 

[walterw]

Funny how the equal temprement is so out of tune to the pythagoran tuning of the C-major scale..

well yeah, that's how equal temperament works.

the notes in that harmonically "perfect" C scale are useless in other keys, the math just doesn't line up perfectly. ET makes the intervals all the same so that they're "close enough" for all chords in all keys.

near as i can tell, the main conflict historically with tunings is that the orchestra sounds better (as in louder, brighter and more in tune) with higher tunings while the poor singers have an easier time hitting the notes with lower tunings.

i think the whole "432" thing is just a recent internet meme with no real historical basis.

 

[Anders Barfod]

well yeah, that's how equal temperament works.



near as i can tell, the main conflict historically with tunings is that the orchestra sounds better (as in louder, brighter and more in tune) with higher tunings while the poor singers have an easier time hitting the notes with lower tunings.

i think the whole "432" thing is just a recent internet meme with no real historical basis.

Besides Verdi suggesting it in 1880s, i can't see many examples of this pitch in frequent use from historical data. The 432Hz is just "scientific" A4 is C is 64Hz, 128Hz, 256Hz using pythagoran tuning.

But the Diapason normal at 435Hz was the widely used tuning pitch in Europe from its installment in 1859 to the late 1930s in Europe. I find 435Hz the golden medium between bright and dark and a pitch my voice seem to prefer to 440Hz tuning. My voice simply have to flip to much into head around the second passaggio which in annoying but even from the note B3 (middle register) I feel the resonance sits too high for comfort.