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Double Bass '50 Kay Project

gbaker

gbaker

Sep 10, 2008
243
1
Westminster, Maryland
#1
I am working on a 1950 M-1 Kay project. It had been stabbed by a fork lift (a shame it was in good shape until then). I will have to replace one upper bout as well as glue some top and back plys together. I have a couple questions.

Question - Does anyone have a scheme they could share to match the original Kay burst brown finish? I have a new bout to match up.

I am looking toward using guitar tint varnish spray cans (amber and brown available) - the brown seems close for the edges but the center is too amber.

Question - The bass bar has never been replaced but it is 1 - 1/8 inches in from the treble FF hole. I expected it to be very close to the FF as is my Engle. :confused: Is this typical? The bridge foot will be about 1/2 on it. It is solid and I really don't want to replace it.

All the plywood in the '50 is 5-ply whereas the replacement bout is 3 ply. I have always wondered why the old Kays had more bottom - wonder if either of these details could contribute to it?

Thanks.
 
#2
Kays were originally finished in lacquer, not varnish. I match colours with Mohawk stains, then lacquer as appropriate. Mohawk's satin is pretty similar in reflectance to older Kay lacquer.

They were built in a production setting and the bass bar placement (like the X-braces on vintage Martins!) is all over the place. You'll have to make your own decision as to whether you can make it sound better than the original bass bar. Good luck! :)
 
#3
Jake is right about Kays having a nitrocelllulose finish from the factory. They also used typical period analine dyes for coloring. With a ratle can, you'll be hard pressed to get a good color match. I usually get out the spray gun and start mixing colors, but often I'll use shellac and LMI's powdered dyes instead of nitro for the newer finish because the more subdued sheen matches the rest of the aged instrument better than a new coat of shiny nitro.

It is pretty easy to make your own plys to match the original spec if you have access to a simple drum / thickness sander. If not, find a local cabinet shop and rent a half hour of time on one - it should cost you about $25.

I read your pm earlier today; if you come by for some spruce, we can fire up the system and spray a correct burst here while you visit- just the bout area- not the whole thing!

Usually the hardest part about doing a partial finish area comes down to two things: making the color match and then beat it up correctly. The other is the fact that no matter how well I match the color for today, I know that the original and my new dyes will fade at different rates over time and eventually show.

Have you seen the video over at finewoodworking.com on handrubbing a sunburst finish?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

j.
www.condino.com

_______
pm me or call if you are interested in nice aged sitka spruce tops; I've got more than I need and am trying to share them with the community here.
 
#4
Jake deVilliers said:
Kays were originally finished in lacquer, not varnish. I match colours with Mohawk stains, then lacquer as appropriate. Mohawk's satin is pretty similar in reflectance to older Kay lacquer.

They were built in a production setting and the bass bar placement (like the X-braces on vintage Martins!) is all over the place. You'll have to make your own decision as to whether you can make it sound better than the original bass bar. Good luck! :)
Click to expand...


Thanks Jake,

I have a friend who has a Mohawk stain kit, looks like I need to pay him a visit. BTW the guitar rattle can tint IS nitro lacquer, I mis-spoke when I said varnish.

Since I never heard this bass and don't know it is lacking, and the BB is tight, I think I will leave it where it is and leave a lot of wood on the bridge feet below the radii.

Thanks for the advice.
 
#5
james condino said:
Jake is right about Kays having a nitrocelllulose finish from the factory. They also used typical period analine dyes for coloring. With a ratle can, you'll be hard pressed to get a good color match. I usually get out the spray gun and start mixing colors, but often I'll use shellac and LMI's powdered dyes instead of nitro for the newer finish because the more subdued sheen matches the rest of the aged instrument better than a new coat of shiny nitro.

It is pretty easy to make your own plys to match the original spec if you have access to a simple drum / thickness sander. If not, find a local cabinet shop and rent a half hour of time on one - it should cost you about $25.

I read your pm earlier today; if you come by for some spruce, we can fire up the system and spray a correct burst here while you visit- just the bout area- not the whole thing!

Usually the hardest part about doing a partial finish area comes down to two things: making the color match and then beat it up correctly. The other is the fact that no matter how well I match the color for today, I know that the original and my new dyes will fade at different rates over time and eventually show.

Have you seen the video over at finewoodworking.com on handrubbing a sunburst finish?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

j.
www.condino.com

_______
pm me or call if you are interested in nice aged sitka spruce tops; I've got more than I need and am trying to share them with the community here.
Click to expand...

Thanks James, good talking with you this afternoon.

Nice video. Well done and very informative.
 
#6
I completed this project last week. I took it to an OT fest last weekend and it received very good reviews. It sounds great, the old Kay plates were worth the effort of saving.

I could do better with the inlay repairs next time; water based glues are not the best solution as they caused the inlay to swell.

Here is a link to the process not all work is shown.

http://s657.photobucket.com/albums/uu298/ghbaker/Kay 1950 M-1 Project/?albumview=slideshow

Thanks to TB experts, Jake and James, who provided good advice.
 

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