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Double Bass 5ths Tuning Strings

#21
Hi Jeff,

After talking a little with you and, well, listening to Joel Q some more (LOL), I decided to try the Dominants. Just the A and D, though. I really like the spiro Red Mitchell weiches on the G and C strings they bow great for me, and I am still a little shy when it comes to using plastic and gut strings that can cut and break so easily as it is for some of the folks here...I don't want to have to suffer that too.

The Dominant A and D bowed and pizzed great for me I love them! They even get that unique "sizzle" I hear from Joel's recordings but don't have any harshness with the bow at all like spiros can be at times. The initial brightness really matches well with the spiros and they sustain nicely on pizz. I guess if they get darker over time that's o.k., but I could live with them as they are now too.

I'm definitely sold on the Dominant wave now (well, half the wave at least) .:hyper:
 
#22
Hi Guys, (uups and gals....if there are any)

I tried some velvet fifths tuning strings on my bass. They're the compass 180 type for bowing.

The A is thick like a thomastik dominant and sounds quite well.
The D also.

I've had problems with the G and C strings...They rattle and buzz!!!! (something's wrong with the winding or the core)
I've spoken to the sales rep at velvet and he said that ,in checking with the other sets they had in stock that alot of them had a problems.
I understand that this can be bad publicity for these people but I must say that after 2 months of waiting for them to send me a string that works, I've heard nothing back from them.
These strings weren't exactly cheap either. I got them at a special price for having gone to the Cremona trade fair in Italy, but still:crying:

Things that do work- the concept that every string puts the same amount of tension on the top is a big plus , ( this helps alot with the rocking motion that the bridge has to have in order to transmit the energy of the string to the top)although I did find the C string a bit flabby.
The A and D sound very good although some harmonic passages are more difficult to execute (probably because they're not as thin as the flexocores I used to have= need more pressure)

Things against- the C and G are below fabrication standards.
as a whole I find them very expensive and I find the method of tying them instead of winding them a real pain in the ass! ( especially for the luthier who has to continually put on and take off a string when there is a modification to be done to the instrument).

Cheers,

Verth
 
#23
Verth said:
Hi Guys, (uups and gals....if there are any)

I tried some velvet fifths tuning strings on my bass. They're the compass 180 type for bowing.

The A is thick like a thomastik dominant and sounds quite well.
The D also.

I've had problems with the G and C strings...They rattle and buzz!!!! (something's wrong with the winding or the core)
I've spoken to the sales rep at velvet and he said that ,in checking with the other sets they had in stock that alot of them had a problems.
I understand that this can be bad publicity for these people but I must say that after 2 months of waiting for them to send me a string that works, I've heard nothing back from them.
These strings weren't exactly cheap either. I got them at a special price for having gone to the Cremona trade fair in Italy, but still:crying:

Things that do work- the concept that every string puts the same amount of tension on the top is a big plus , ( this helps alot with the rocking motion that the bridge has to have in order to transmit the energy of the string to the top)although I did find the C string a bit flabby.
The A and D sound very good although some harmonic passages are more difficult to execute (probably because they're not as thin as the flexocores I used to have= need more pressure)

Things against- the C and G are below fabrication standards.
as a whole I find them very expensive and I find the method of tying them instead of winding them a real pain in the ass! ( especially for the luthier who has to continually put on and take off a string when there is a modification to be done to the instrument).

Cheers,

Verth
Click to expand...

Dear James Testi (sorry but i lke to call the people by their name...)
i indeed sent you a new G string a long time ago, you should have contacted me if you didnt receive it, also you didnt tell me nothing about the C, you told me that the G vibrated a lot and i told you that in fact some G's had bad windings and that we were producing a new one.
i have to control when i sent you the string, but it was more than a month ago, i just think that before bashing people, you should contact them and try to see whats goin on.
my best regards

Nuno
 
#24
Hello Nuno,

I get your point, no need to post the SAME message three times:hmm:

There was no BASHING intended, if there would have been, I probably would not have praised the good points about your strings.

With regards to me not contacting you...I did, through my email.
concretely on May 20th 2008 at 14:15 and 15:15. (now that I've seen my email archive I see that it hasn't been 2 months but four!! since you haven't replied)

Having posted what I did is of course a personal opinion about what I found isn't working SO FAR ( and I enfasize so far , so that there is no dispute over the possibility of future progress on your fifths tuned strings). This has nothing to do with :
your work on fouths tuned strings which I've read is very good.
The fact that you are willing to rectify any errors.
(At least this is the feeling I get from your post)

What have I learnt from this?
If my emails regarding the bass or strings for WHATEVER REASON are not answered, I'll be sure to post a reminder on the talkbass forum so that people will pay attention.
This is unfortunate for me but good for the forum because it means that this forum outweighs me as an individual by a Loooong shot!

best regards Nuno,

James
 
#25
Verth said:
Hello Nuno,

I get your point, no need to post the SAME message three times:hmm:

There was no BASHING intended, if there would have been, I probably would not have praised the good points about your strings.

With regards to me not contacting you...I did, through my email.
concretely on May 20th 2008 at 14:15 and 15:15. (now that I've seen my email archive I see that it hasn't been 2 months but four!! since you haven't replied)

Having posted what I did is of course a personal opinion about what I found isn't working SO FAR ( and I enfasize so far , so that there is no dispute over the possibility of future progress on your fifths tuned strings). This has nothing to do with :
your work on fouths tuned strings which I've read is very good.
The fact that you are willing to rectify any errors.
(At least this is the feeling I get from your post)

What have I learnt from this?
If my emails regarding the bass or strings for WHATEVER REASON are not answered, I'll be sure to post a reminder on the talkbass forum so that people will pay attention.
This is unfortunate for me but good for the forum because it means that this forum outweighs me as an individual by a Loooong shot!

best regards Nuno,

James
Click to expand...


James, the reason i posted 3 times was that when i clicked "submit reply" , nothing happened and since i was in a rush i just clicked and clicked before i shut the computer down, i just realized now that the message was posted 3 times.. i was in a rush and didnt pass through my mind in any moment that you need to read the same thing 3 times to get it.
now that i have more time... you bought the strings after the Cremona fair (cant say now for sure when did you buy them since im not at work). i still offered you the 40% discount (which i was not even suposed to do) since the discount was exclusively for strings bought at
the fair, how bad of a guy i am right?
i even wrote on the package a small value like it was a publicity sample to save you an extra 20% of VAT/ Customs taxes.
you received the strings and after a while you told me that they sounded very good but that the G had problems, we tested a bunch of G's and i told you that in fact on other G's there were strange vibrations and that we would make a new string and that i would sent you one. i sent you the string a long time ago and i never heard from you again so i presumed that you have received the string, sometimes players told me that they received them, others dont say nothing so i presumed they indeed received the strings.
there was never any talk about a bad sounding C string, everything i have on email and what i talked with you on the phone was always about the G string... if theres something im proud of is that of treating the best that i can fellow bass players because im a musician myself and often the players are the ones who suffer more in the music chain....
i will check tomorrow if i received your emails on the 20th of may (i keep all emails which regard broken/damaged strings), as far as im concerned i never received nothing regarding a bad C string.
Also, im not paid to be here nor im forced to, i do it because i decided to and i thought i could be useful here,usually when i log in is when im at home though spending my own free time. the company has their own business/customer support emails and thats the normal way to contact the company. So next time you (or anybody else) have a problem, you should contact directly the company, and if by some reason you wont have an answer in a timely manner ( i usually write back the same day except maybe when im playing on the weekends and just work till thursdays), you should email again, thats the right thing to do!
sometimes there are mails who just dont reach their destination or are caught in filters, whatever. theres also a phone number where you can leave a message, but i can tell you that most of the people who write to Velvet have a fast answer. If you think that posting on forums will get you answers from companies, then you really dont know much about business, how many companies have people regularly watching the forums?
nevertheless, this week i will send you another string and hopefully this one will reach its destination, my best regards to you.

Nuno

Nuno
 
#26
Rise, thread. RRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSEE!!!

Now gonna seriously try the 5ths tuning Obligato set. I never fell in love with the Obligato sound that I heard from other bassists, so my expectations for the sound I get are not high. I'm guessing the sound to be close to my memory of the Dominants, though, so my hopes are much higher than my expectations.

Crossing my fingers they don't break on me!
 
#29
Ok so yeah, the technical challenges for 5ths tuning stand tall and won't let me ignore them. Beyond getting up to the heel and using those hook-or-by-crook techniques of the virtuosos, there simply has to be a greater amount of shifting.

I would hear a lot of sliding around in Red's playing and just thought it was the spiro sustain, or just the style he liked. I'm gonna youtube some trombone playing and try to steal some musical ideas!

I read a little about 5ths tuning having problems with maj3 intervals. Yeah but if you go up an octave it's right there LOL
 
#30
You know, the Obligatos are still pretty darn good sounding from behind the bass. Bowing-wise, it's hard to complain...but this is coming from a guy who likes bowing spiros too so maybe my standards are too low or the audience's standards are too high or whatever...

BUT, I'm going back to the Red Mitchell set because, well, I know those won't break on me when I least expect them to.
 
#31
I got today a 2,00mm solo A and 2,80mm D Kathedral plain gut strings made by Nicholas Baldock, Germany. Paired them with Spiro RM weich G and mittel C. Have to let them settle in and stretch but it looks ( and sounds ) very promising. High quality craftmanship with only little higher cost than Lenzners and such!
 
#33
Plain gut D`s can be problematic in 5ths ( pizzicato ) because they tend to be thumpy and not have enough sustain. I asked which model and gauges mr Baldock would recommend for 5ths and he came up with these. I`ll continue reporting after some playing-in time. However, it seems fine at this point. They do sound cool, huge low end even on the high A!
 
#34
I quess I might be done with the quest for plain gut D in 5ths / pizzicato. It had it`s moments but is too much hard work and thumb position is very challenging. Bowed it sounds fantastic across the fingerboard. Tried several combinations with Anima or Spiro mit or w C, downtuned Dominants and plain gut. Nice low tension set was Anima C / Dominant A - G / Dom solo E - D / plain gut A. Then I switched to lightweight tailpiece and things started looking pretty bad for the Anima C, windings started to unravel on both sides of the bridge. Have to contact Nuno of Velvet about the issue, as the string was pretty pricey. Now I have Spiro RM mit C, Spiro RM w G & D and the Nicholas Baldock plain gut A on the bass. I love the zero BS factor of this setup but the steel D needs a lot to get used to. Might swap it to Velvet Compas D ( I have Compas D & solo A as a backup ). Plain gut A works very well in 5ths, as it doesn`t sound as stringy as most solo A`s do, and sounds very strong and bass-y in higher positions too. A Velvet D might make sonically better transition to gut A than steel D, but there`s something very pleasing with the Spirocore too. Let`s see.

EDIT: Why oh why did Velvet discontinue their Compas in 5ths line?
 
Last edited:
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#35
Reiska said:
...Why oh why did Velvet discontinue their Compas in 5ths line?
Click to expand...

That's the set I'd try next also, if I could. I've heard lots of good things about Velvet strings in general.

I settled with the RM weich set rather than the RM mediums, simply because I'm finding no disadvantage with the lighter tension strings on my new bass.

Funny thing though is that out of all the basses I liked best, they all had fat A wolftones. I like that wobble, to be honest. It's a fun sound. The one I picked wobbled the slowest, but that's just coincidence. I'm not a big fan of weights on a string anymore, mostly because it's just one more thing I'll want to keep tinkering with endlessly...

Anyway, I hung a dominant solo A on it to make it a little easier to bow. The RM A would ring so much in sympathy whenever I'd stop an A on the other strings, it would make it really tough to bow because of the wolftone. The dominant wants to be slightly more stubborn to vibrate sympathetically, and the whole bass has been made easier to bow. Lots more clear. Plus, the dominant sustains long like the others on pizz. If it breaks on me, I'm giving up on dominants until I break down and get another one. Damn I love those dominants!

It wasn't until I tried the dominant that I remembered how much more damped the Helicore orchestra A string was compared to the others. I liked the pizz sound a lot when I used them, to be honest. Dark and sorta tubby like that cherished PC sound, but there was sustain!...except for that A string, which was annoying. I wonder if it's because D'Addario recognized the wolftone "problem" and tried to mute it for better pitch control on all basses? I'd probably still use those strings for 5ths tuning, but I never could get the G to feel similar, tension-wise, with the others. I tried both their solo F# and orchestra A's to get there, but it never worked well for me.

I suspect the Velvets, with their desire to offer a more gut-like sound in their strings, would sound pretty darn kick-ass with 5ths tuning!
 
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#37
Co. said:
Actually, sympathetic string vibrations are the best thing to dampen a wolf tone.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Co. Then there's more going on than what I think I'm seeing.

Thomastik says the Dominant solo A has slightly more tension than the RM weich A. Maybe it's squeezing the body a little more? Maybe I should just be happy it works, but it's fun to know what's really going on.
 
#38
Johnny L said:
That's the set I'd try next also, if I could. I've heard lots of good things about Velvet strings in general.

I settled with the RM weich set rather than the RM mediums, simply because I'm finding no disadvantage with the lighter tension strings on my new bass.

Funny thing though is that out of all the basses I liked best, they all had fat A wolftones. I like that wobble, to be honest. It's a fun sound. The one I picked wobbled the slowest, but that's just coincidence. I'm not a big fan of weights on a string anymore, mostly because it's just one more thing I'll want to keep tinkering with endlessly...

Anyway, I hung a dominant solo A on it to make it a little easier to bow. The RM A would ring so much in sympathy whenever I'd stop an A on the other strings, it would make it really tough to bow because of the wolftone. The dominant wants to be slightly more stubborn to vibrate sympathetically, and the whole bass has been made easier to bow. Lots more clear. Plus, the dominant sustains long like the others on pizz. If it breaks on me, I'm giving up on dominants until I break down and get another one. Damn I love those dominants!

It wasn't until I tried the dominant that I remembered how much more damped the Helicore orchestra A string was compared to the others. I liked the pizz sound a lot when I used them, to be honest. Dark and sorta tubby like that cherished PC sound, but there was sustain!...except for that A string, which was annoying. I wonder if it's because D'Addario recognized the wolftone "problem" and tried to mute it for better pitch control on all basses? I'd probably still use those strings for 5ths tuning, but I never could get the G to feel similar, tension-wise, with the others. I tried both their solo F# and orchestra A's to get there, but it never worked well for me.

I suspect the Velvets, with their desire to offer a more gut-like sound in their strings, would sound pretty darn kick-ass with 5ths tuning!
Click to expand...

Hey Johnny, have you heard of Wolf Terminator? It`s a device that is attached to top of the bass, rather than string afterlenght and I`ve heard lots of great things about it. My new bass has a wolf on B. With low tension strings ( Anima C, downtuned Dominant G + guts ) the wolf almost completely disappeared, but is now back with higher tension. My luthier said that he could use a Terminator on my bass if the wolf still exists after some playing- and settling in -time.

I`ve had the biggest problems with low C`s and high A`s in general. I need power from the low C, but I dislike lots of tension. Red Mitchell mittel C is a beast, but for my hands it`s a tough one to play. I like the weich G and D a lot more than mittel. That`s also why I like Velvets, as they have lots of volume, character and power with very reasonable amount of tension. I`m lucky in that I`ve found my high A`s, the plain gut or Compas 180.
 
#40
Ok, so after todays rehersals I decided to go back to low tension setup. My hands were hurting afterwards and I had to fight to get the stuff out at times. I`m in a situation where I " have to " play a lot and I wouldn`t mess with health issues at all. So, Anima C and downtuned Dominant GD back on the bass.

It`s weird how that Anima is on par with Spiro mittel with acoustic volume, significantly louder than Spiro weich, with 25kg tension. That`s more than 5kg`s less than Spiro mittel. I managed to get that string on the bass without it snapping. I hope it lasts until I get a new one from Schertler, which Nuno of Velvet promised on a mail today. Great policy they have, hats off!
 

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