Double Bass 7/4

[Andy Mopley]

Hi all

please see attached - what is the intention when indicating that the 7/4 is made up of 3/4+4/4? Is it because the the 3/4 may be a quick "in 1"? I note the use of the dotted vertical lines, I can see it is to reflect where the 3 and 4 are separated, but how is this relevant when playing?

Regards to all

 

[unbrokenchain]

Makes it easier to count, though if it's quick I'd prefer 1231212.

 

[CSBBass]

In the case of your part, it's not particularly helpful aside from to aid in counting and listening. If you had a melody there or some more active accompanying part you'd know where the strong beats fall and that can inform your phrasing and help the group to present a unified interpretation without needing clarification from the conductor.

 

[neilG]

It's a lot less cluttered to have 7/4 than to change time signatures every measure.

 

[biguglyman]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but one of my favorite songs is in 7/4 during the verses:

 

[neilG]

Also:

 

[Matthijs]

What Csbbass said. In a lot of classical pieces these odd meter bits are citations of eastern european folk music, music you’re meant to dance to. So it is important to define a clear pulse. Impossible te see from this bit if that’s the case. But often it is very helpfull to interpret the melody.

 

[Matthijs]

And it is easier to count offcourse. Money for example is easier to count as three and four beats

 

[Andy Mopley]

Thanks everyone, all clear now.

 

[SAlcott]

Actually, "Money" is 4+3.

 

[neilG]

Actually, "Money" is 4+3.

All the sheet music I've seen for it shows it to be in 7/4.

 

[biguglyman]

All the sheet music I've seen for it shows it to be in 7/4.

I think they're talking about how to count it, not the actual time signature.

 

[5StringBlues]

 

[Silevesq]

The intention is somehow to give you the information about the underlying clave of the composition. What I mean by clave is the "pulsation" that give us the groove of a piece. Bartok has some really great one based on 8th note (small 7), and a lot of modern and contemporary jazz are also. ex. Ben Wendel come to mind, Experanza Spalding, Gretchen Parlato, Michael Formanek and so on.

Money by Pink floyd is more in the line of a big 7, where we are feeling all of the quater note.

In this case it is not obvious what it could be. But for sure the composer is implying a rhythm based on 3/4 in the first mesure then in 4/4 in the second mesure. What can be under this is either more complicated or simple. There is two main big seven it could imply.
The first I would consider is : Dotted quarter note, Dotted quarter note, Half note, Half note.
Or: Quarter, Quarter, Quarter, Quarter, Quarter, Quarter, Quarter, Quarter.

You could find all of the variation you can based only on these two and you would come up with line that refer more to one or the other and that could help you understand what is going on.

But in any case, and this is a problem I have seen happen some musician feel or don't feel that clave and it totally change the vibe. Think of 9/8 can be 3-3-3 or 2-2-2-3, 3-2-2-2, 2-2-3-2, 2-3-2-2 or even a variation of them all...

Good luck, and if you can tell us what is the piece or send use more of that chart please do. Will be able to give you more information.

 

[Andy Mopley]

Silevesq - thanks for the detailed response, and thanks to everyone again.
The piece is Walton Viola Concerto.

 

[David Potts]

It is generally the conductor's call, 4+3, 3+4, 1212123 or 1231212 when all the time signature indicates 7/4 (he's the one who has to beat it!!). However, in your example the composer has been fairly specific. Then it may boil down to the speed which is not given.

Many years ago we were all terrified by the reputed difficulty of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring but our wonderful old conductor, Willem van Otterloo, gave us great confidence by his concise but not overly beating, especially near the end. It is worth having a copy of the bass part in front of you as you watch it on YouTube.

 

[Andy Mopley]

Thanks David - you've anticipated my next question. I was wondering who would make the call (in your example 4+3, 3+4, 1212123 or 1231212) and obviously some composers are specific. Yet, it surprises me that a lot more aren't!! (or at least not explicitly).

 

[Don Kasper]

Here is a nice example of a 4+3 feel in 7/4. I believe the written music would attempt to indicate the subdivision of the "7" as "4+3" throughout the composition.
Hermeto Pascoal is the composer.
(Hey...Your Orchestra might have a Pops Concert Night of Brazilian Popular Music/Composers!)

 

[Andy Mopley]

Here is a nice example of a 4+3 feel in 7/4. I believe the written music would attempt to indicate the subdivision of the "7" as "4+3" throughout the composition.
Hermeto Pascoal is the composer.
(Hey...Your Orchestra might have a Pops Concert Night of Brazilian Popular Music/Composers!)

How I wish!!