90s Ampeg V4BH vs. Newer Ampeg V4B Reissue vs. Vintage Models

[stevenreedkelly]

Hi gang -
I'm new here. I'm in the market for a bass head, primarily for tracking/recording and I'm really interested in the Ampeg V4/V4B models. There are a few options though and I'd love to know what the sonic differences are (as best you can describe them) - I just don't have them all at my disposal to test out:

1. Newer V4B Reissues
2. 90s V4BH (which I understand are closer to SVT CLs - but I don't know what that means, sonically)
3. Vintage V4 and V4B models...

The 90s V4BH and Vintage V4 models seem like they're available for around the same scratch ($850-ish).

I guess also fair to include that I mostly play punk/rock - looking for some good tube grit.

 

[abarson]

Welcome to TB!
If your main purpose is tracking, a good preamp will suffice instead of a head. All the heads you listed are tube based and need to always have a cabinet connected or a large enough power soak.

 

[beans-on-toast]

From a maintenance point of view….The vintage V4B's can be a can of worms to bring up to spec and repair. Some tubes are harder to find. I'd go with the new reissue, I think that it's a well designed amp. This is an important consideration.

Sonically they are different amps, different designs and transformers. All good but not exactly the same.

The reissue V4B was sonically based on a gold standard '74 V4B. A lot went into tweaking the output transformer design to match the power amp's sound closely to the vintage design. That's their story anyway.

The speaker cabinet that you match any of these amps to is also important.

The V4B is a loud amp for recording. Consider a PF-50T or PF-20T. An advantage is that they can be used without a speaker connected. I like the sound of a mic'ed cab but it isn't always necessary.

 

[stevenreedkelly]

Welcome to TB!
If your main purpose is tracking, a good preamp will suffice instead of a head. All the heads you listed are tube based and need to always have a cabinet connected or a large enough power soak.

Fair - I am typically running my guitar heads through a Universal Audio Ox instead of mic'ing a cab (and for bass, I had been using the UA SVT or B15 plugins as well as getting a DI in through some different preamps... I just wanted to follow suit with what I've been enjoying for guitars). I would like having a head on hand to play gigs if I needed to though.

Consider a PF-50T or PF-20T. An advantage is that they can be used without a speaker connected. I like the sound of a mic'ed cab but it isn't always necessary.

I've also been looking at the newer/smaller portaflex tube amps and some old Ampeg B25s - they seem too small for a full rock band but I hear they're great for recording.

 

[abarson]

There seem to be a bunch of PF-50T users finding it loud enough for live in this thread:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ampeg-pf-50t-loud-cab.1644543/#post-28296711

 

[beans-on-toast]

I've also been looking at the newer/smaller portaflex tube amps and some old Ampeg B25s - they seem too small for a full rock band but I hear they're great for recording.

Why I use an SVT, V4B, and a B-15 depending on the application. Different tools for different jobs.

If you can work on your own amps, vintage is good. Otherwise you risk sinking a lot of money into bringing an old amp up to spec. Not always the case but…

 

[ariwax]

I used to have a V4BH from around 2007. Nice amp. But I like my PF-50T better.

 

[stevenreedkelly]

I used to have a V4BH from around 2007. Nice amp. But I like my PF-50T better.

Can you put into words what you like better about the PF-50T?

 

[seamonkey]

If it's mainly recording, there are several plugin options

IK Multimedia Amplitube SVX 1&2 bundle is on sale for $40
IK Multimedia AmpliTube SVX 1 and 2 Software Suite
There's a V-4B included and many other Ampeg amps

IK is moving more towards Tonex, and there's a few V-4B for it at Tone.net

Brainworks Ampeg V-4B is not on sale for $150, but some like it better than SVX: Ampeg V-4B

Ampeg Suite is also on sale for $90
SVT Suite
No V-4B in the Suite

For Live, You can get pedals that model the V-4B if you have good FOH support.

 

[ariwax]

First, I like the tone. It's kind of between a B-15 and a SVT. You can get honest tube saturation if you want it, but there's actually a fair amount of headroom and it's loud enough for a rock band unless you're playing metal. If I needed anything bigger, I'd be running through the PA anyway, and the sound from the DI is great.

Actually I should say DI's, because it has two - one after the preamp, one after the transformer. That makes it a flexible tool for recording, sending signal to a pedalboard or looper, or whatever else I feel like doing.

Also, I've got a matching cab, so I can just flip the top and it's way more portable than my old V4BH and 1x15.

It doesn't hurt that it looks cool too. Two massive transformers and a bunch of tubes in a cage, as opposed to a big black rectangle sitting on top of a bigger black square. That's not a major selling point, but I just like how it looks.

 

[coy garcia]

If your wanting a head to record the PF50T can be run without a speaker, loud enough to gig, and new so you won't have to take it to a shop for a go over. Just seems like a better fit for you. A small tube preamp would probably work for you also.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

guess also fair to include that I mostly play punk/rock - looking for some good tube grit.

Some folks like these amps. I've always found that in a live setting, these struggle just sitting in the mix with 2 guitars and a drummer playing at any sort of boisterous volume. May not be the best choice for your genre.

 

[seamonkey]

BGM article on Old VS New
V-4B Old vs. New Head to Head | Bass Gear Magazine

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I've owned a V4BH since I purchased it new around 20 years ago. Lots of people complain about a lack out output volume and clean headroom with these amps and I can confirm this to be the case.

I managed to get slightly more volume out mine by replacing the tubes with good quality NOS tubes (re-biasing the amp may also have helped) but it's still very weak for a (supposedly) 100w amp. My tech measured it to be closer to 50w than 100w. He described it as "electronically weak".

I also had other issues with this amp. It made a high pitched squealing when used with certain cabs. It was really weird. I could use the same cab, replace the Eminence speakers with a very similar set of Eminence speakers (similar frequency response, same impedance but different wattage) and the squealing disappeared. I don't remember the details but I remember my tech said something was oscillating inside the amp. I think it had something to do with the output transformer. I have no idea if mine was faulty or if they all have this problem. My tech also said it looked like it was built by drunks...

The tone is nice though and it still works fine. It's not really a V4 at all, but an SVT Classic preamp with a 4x6L6GC-based 100w (supposedly) output section. The tone is perhaps like an SVT with a slightly warmer/woolier tone, especially when pushing it into distortion (which doesn't take much...). I've done some really nice recordings with it but for me it's a studio amp. It never really gave me the output volume I needed for rehearsals or gigs. I own 50w tube amps that are noticeably louder.

The V4B-reissues and vintage V4/V4Bs will give you far more output volume (and a cooler tone as well IMO).

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hi gang -
I'm new here. I'm in the market for a bass head, primarily for tracking/recording and I'm really interested in the Ampeg V4/V4B models. There are a few options though and I'd love to know what the sonic differences are (as best you can describe them) - I just don't have them all at my disposal to test out:

1. Newer V4B Reissues
2. 90s V4BH (which I understand are closer to SVT CLs - but I don't know what that means, sonically)
3. Vintage V4 and V4B models...

The 90s V4BH and Vintage V4 models seem like they're available for around the same scratch ($850-ish).

I guess also fair to include that I mostly play punk/rock - looking for some good tube grit.

V4B head is a lot of power for recording. Years ago, I had I 1958 Reverbrocket guitar amp I used in a lot of recording sessions. It was, If I remember correctly it was rated around 20-22 watts and was much more suitable.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I just realized you wanted this amp mainly for recording. In that case the V4BH might actually be a good choice, if you can find one in good condition. It records really well (when matched with a nice sounding cab obviously) and can deliver a bit of tube breakup at (relatively) reasonable volumes. Sometimes a limited output volume can be a good thing!

 

[Deleted member 271037]

It also depends on whether you want a tone that's leaning towards aggressive or "warm". The V4BH is definitely leaning towards "warm". The V4B-reissue can get more aggressive.

 

[stevenreedkelly]

It also depends on whether you want a tone that's leaning towards aggressive or "warm". The V4BH is definitely leaning towards "warm". The V4B-reissue can get more aggressive.

That's a good question. In some recent recordings, I was using the B15N UAD plugin (blended with a DI track that was through a UA 110 Solo) and that was like... imo a stellar bass sound (at least the best I feel like I've ever achieved) - I would describe it as pretty dirty/gritty but also warm - maybe not entirely "aggressive" and that's the dragon I'm chasing in analog form, I guess. Very specifically the sound of the bass on this track.

 

[Freight Train]

I second the option of going with the PF-50T. It can be used in studio (or a gig for that matter) with no cab attached, AND it has both a post preamp DI and a post output transformer DI. Post output transformer means the DI is after the power tubes, and what I think you'll find is that it is power tube grunt and breakup that is the desirable tube sound, not so much preamp tube distortion, which is what you get in pedals and solid state heads with tube preamps. The preamp distortion is more buzzy where the power tube distortion is more grunty. Having those two DI's means you can record a cleaner preamp DI track and a more distorted power tube DI track simultaneously, and then do the blend during the mix, spread them in stereo, etc. Same with live if you know and trust the sound man - you can send him both DI's and he can do the blend. Of course live with a cab the 50 watts can be scary, and of course for punk and loud rock you'll most likely need FOH and monitor short as well, but the 50 tube watts will rock louder than you might expect. Live this allows you to get a fantastic distorted tube sound but at a reasonable volume that FOH can bring up where it needs to be. I have a Bassman 100T and to get that 100 watt head to break up takes more volume than most medium stages need. The PF-50T is a LOT easier to get there. The Bassman I seldom use for other than festival or theater stages.
A final thing, I've heard here on TB from people apparently in the know that the PF-50T is based on the SVT design, whereas the 20 watt PF-20T is more of the B15 flip-top era design. Don't know where the V4B falls between those two sounds.

 

[Wasnex]

Unless you are into provenance and patina, go with a new amp with a warranty.

The modern V4B is very well regarded. If you need something to do gig, I think the V4B will have noticeably more headroom than a PF50T. If you only want a recording amp, the PF50T may be a better choice.

I own vintage SVTs and a PF50T. The PF50T sounds fairly similar to the SVTs...definitely Ampeg tone. I think the PF50T is a bit sweeter sounding. It produces very usable light OD, but is not quite as grindy or massive sounding as my SVTs.

The PF50T has a common problem (audible hum), which is a bit of a hassle. The amount of hum varies somewhat from amp to amp.

Ref: Ampeg PF-50T Humbuster | TalkBass.com

The mod is easy if you are technically inclined. I bought my PF50T previously loved and did the mod myself. If you buy a new one, Ampeg will supposedly do the mod under warranty.