A 210 mini stack, or a 115 combo with slightly more power?

[Iristone]

There are a few such pairs of amps from different manufacturers, each with almost identical tone controls:

• Ampeg Micro-VR 200W stack vs PF-350/PF-115HE 350W flip-top;
• Ashdown Studio 200W Mini-Rig vs Studio 15 300W combo;
• Hibilly Creaman 150W stack vs Creaman 200W combo;

I understand that the different drivers may make them sound a bit different, but from a practicality point of view which one would you prefer? The combo is more portable with slightly more power, whereas the stack is more modular and slightly taller so maybe I can hear it slightly better onstage.

 

[JonathanPDX]

It depends on what sound you want. If you're chugging away at a downtuned string with a pick trying to sound like a freight train, then the 15" is probably going to get you a deeper rumble.

On the other hand, if you're thumping away in a disco band you probably want the faster response of the smaller speakers and more highs and clarity than you're going to get with a 1x15.

 

[Iristone]

It depends. I like a picked overdrive sound, but I also like it to sound fast.
Also, I'm not entirely sure about the exact correlation between speaker size and response. A 10" tends to be faster than a similar 15", but I've heard that it's not absolute. Also the Ampeg and Ashdown combo come in both 115 and 210 varieties, but the 210s seem diagonal rather than vertical.

 

[thebassgrognard]

I've owned the Ashdown Studio 15 (and I'm definitely an Ashdown fanboy), it will not stand up to a drummer of any volume and guitarist if that's what you're playing with. And as far as height from the ground, if you are standing right in front of it, it won't matter. The sound is coming into your legs. If you're able to stand a few feet in front, then on the ground at that wattage it probably won't be an appreciable difference in volume between the two if eq'd to your liking.

I've gigged plenty with a Markbass 210 and 300 watt head (which I think was only making 210 watts because of 8ohm), and it worked just fine if not playing with obnoxiously loud drummer and guitars.

I've always loved the tone from the Ampeg micro-vr, but again it's volume would only serve as bass-room rig for me. The PF rig you list seemed to work much better. And to throw another wrench in the equation the Ampeg BR100 combo I had years ago seemed to make more volume than all of them, with a better tone. Go figure.

 

[Alban]

If I were you, I would widen the search; something like the EBS Magni 502 combo will destroy any of your options for a similar price. That would be my first pick.

 

[Iristone]

If I were you, I would widen the search; something like the EBS Magni 502 combo will destroy any of your options for a similar price. That would be my first pick.

I don't think so - it's much louder and more expensive from where I live. For that price I could easily buy a higher power offering from my 3 companies of choice. I've heard that certain EBS amps sound like SWR, though, and that would pique my interest.

 

[Core Creek]

If I were you, I would widen the search; something like the EBS Magni 502 combo will destroy any of your options for a similar price. That would be my first pick.

Ouch - $1549.

I've been using a head and cab for the last couple of years but picked up a used Ampeg RB210 in a trade and liked it so much until I fried it. But the idea of a lightweight, basic 2x10 combo appealed to me.

So I just got a Fender Rumble 800. I admit, my perception was that it wasn't going to be very good, but so far it's louder, lighter and smaller than anything else I've used, and was on sale for $800.

There aren't many control options but it gives a nice bass tone, and there's an effects loop - add a preamp of choice and it could do anything. And seriously, it's loud - but only 29 pounds. The bright switch adds a ton of top end of you like that (I do) and can be turned off for a thumpier sound.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Nowadays it is not good Idea to Generalize Speaker Size or to dismiss any based on size as with Amps based only on manufacture power spec

There are plenty of resources to angle Cabs towards Ears

 

[Acoustic356]

The only thing that happened when I gigged with a 300 watt amp was I left with blisters on my plucking hand trying to coax more volume out of the rig.

Playing with a band and a PA, you will be hard pressed to monitor your sound on stage. If you're looking at playing at home, then get whatever suits your playing style and ear.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Nowadays it is not good Idea to Generalize Speaker Size or to dismiss any based on size as with Amps based only on manufacture power spec

There are plenty of resources to angle Cabs towards Ears

Yes, I picked up an Amp Ramp and found it really helpful at quieter gigs with a single combo amp. Or you can always throw a milk crate in the trunk and set your speakers higher to hit your ears instead of your knees.

 

[monsterthompson]

That amount of power difference shouldn't make a wild output difference. I think I'd favor the combos assuming the cabinets aren't built of boat anchors. I would expect it's easier to transport and set up and tear down with the combo. One item to move, even if heavier, can be less troublesome. If you can see them locally, try lifting them to see how awkward the carry is. If the handles are in bad spots the 210 might be an easier carry.

Also check the combo power situation. Is there an extension cab jack? Is the power rating at 4 or 8 ohms and how much power is there without an extension. If the combos are 300w at 4 Ohms and the internal speakers are 8 Ohms, you'll only be getting 150w without an extension.

 

[Gearhead17]

Where are you located and what items are currently on the Used market? I think you would find items that are louder and easier to switch out on the Used market. I don't recommend going the combo or "mini-rig" path to achieving more volume and tone capabilities. Mini-Rigs work best when the band has a drummer that can play with restraint/dynamics. A used rig with bulkier cabinets and separate heads allow you to swap pieces in and out as you need more volume or have different tone goals. You have MANY more options when going towards separate pieces.

Those that use "mini-rigs" or other smaller rigs tend to put their setup on a chair or some sort of cabinet stand. The allows the mids & highs to hit their ears throughout the show.

 

[Jeff Scott]

How about a mini stack of two 1-10s with lots of power?

 

[J Wilson]

Personally, I always steer for more power (which generally means more headroom at the volumes I'm working at) and I want to move more air (so more or occasionally bigger drivers), I always want more power than I need (that's why the GAIN knobs go up . . . and down) to keep the amp clean and the speakers under solid control. Push a smaller amp trying to keep up, things start to break up, and I'm not happy, nor in a position to make a positive contribution.

You'll have to decide where that would sit among the choices you've listed.

And of course, there's always barely/carefully used.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

It depends on what sound you want. If you're chugging away at a downtuned string with a pick trying to sound like a freight train, then the 15" is probably going to get you a deeper rumble.

On the other hand, if you're thumping away in a disco band you probably want the faster response of the smaller speakers and more highs and clarity than you're going to get with a 1x15.

This isn't necessarily true anymore. It absolutely was true back in the early 70's when I was touring with a nightclub group for 3 years. I started the tour with my 1966 Fender Bassman amp (212 cab); found out it wouldn't cut it for some of the venues we played That Bassman amp would fart out its Jensen speakers if it turned the volume knob above #7, and that just wasn't loud enough for some of the places we played. So while we were playing a large club in Lincoln, Nebraska in late 1971, I bought a Standel MCIIb/SAM30b piggy-back amp (215 cab) .

The head was just the preamp and very light. The speaker cab however was something else. It was a powered bass reflex cab that was twice as deep as a Vox Super Beatle or my Fender Bassman. As explained to me at the time, the sound coming out the back of the speakers was redirected around and came out through 4 round ports that were mounted vertically next to the 2x15" CTS speakers. It was a really loud cab and pushed enough air out of those ports that if I stood within 3 to 4 feet of it with the volume knob on #3 (9 o'clock), it would flap my bell bottoms.

It provided a much bigger bottom end than my Fender Bassman did and it also had 4-times the power. That cab was really heavy because it was a lot of wood; the CTS 15" speakers had massive magnets; and the amps were inside the speaker cab (one amp for each speaker). Was louder than the SVT, which was new at the time, and right there with the acoustic 360/361.

You can see part of my Standel amp in the pic below next to my guitarist's Vox Super Beatle amp. Easy to see how much deeper my Standel was there.

Now days I use a DNS-210 cab for my indoor venues. It's a little unusual for a 210 though in that it handles 700-watts rms, can replicate the fundamental down at 34Hz; and is amazingly LOUD. It has the tightest, most focused, full, and clear bottom end of any cabs I've played through over the year. It's definitely a better sound than my old 215 Standel amp/cab was, but that was over 50-years ago. The clarity and articulation is superb.

I also have the DNS-410, which I bought back in 2015, thinking it was the last cab I'd ever need to buy...boy was I wrong. Couldn't use it in small venues because owners would say, "that's too much for here". Then I bought a couple of Eden 112 cabs and finally in 2019 bought my DNS-210 cab for small and medium venues. Ended up using it in all my indoor venues because it is so loud. Just use my 410 for outdoor venues and music festivals.

Here's a picture of both my DNS cabs the one time I stacked them. Was the first large venue I played with my 210 and wasn't sure it would cover it. So I brought my 410 with me and could simply unplug my 210 and plug in my 410 if needed. Didn't need to. The DNS-210 was more than enough and my 410 just performed amp stand duties that evening (made me promise not to relegate him to that ever again...).

Point is that my 210 has better low end than any other cab I've found. So a 210 cab can absolutely have a lower bottom end than a 115. Speaker designs have advanced by leaps and bound over the last 50-years. The old sayings about the 10's being punchy and quick but weaker in the bottom end; the 15's giving the best bottom end but the least punch; and the 12" speakers as a mix in between the two, just doesn't hold water anymore. It depends upon what the designer of the cab designs the speakers to do in the cab he's designed to put them in. There's actually a whole science in designing and matching speakers, tweeters, crossovers, baffles, and porting in a cab and today's designers can do some wonderful things with them. Back in the 60's it was trial and error...and a LOT of error. Now days, it's science and math. If at all possible, take your bass and try the different rigs with it. That way you hear what you sound like through it. It may surprise you where you end up.

 

[VintageOldMan]

Yes, I picked up an Amp Ramp and found it really helpful at quieter gigs with a single combo amp. Or you can always throw a milk crate in the trunk and set your speakers higher to hit your ears instead of your knees.

Misuse liable to prosecution. Lol