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A devastating response to the "free music" generation.
- Thread starter Benjamin Strange
- Start date
Exactly. If people don't try to see things from the perspective of today's teens and pre-teens, then how do they expect to make a living in music in the coming decades?
You say that as though it is a bad thing. I want to hear music that is made out of passion, not profit motive.
I also want to hear music from those that are doing it for the love of music, but I also want to reward those that make the music I enjoy. As far as understanding teens and Pre teens goes, they have no buying power anyway. They steal because they don't have any money. When I was that age I got mixed tapes from my friends whose parents would buy them music. In college when file sharing popped up I'm not gonna lie and say I didn't download some music from Napster, but now that I'm an adult that has discretionary income I choose to buy he music I want. I do that not to gain an incentive. I do it because if you want anything else in the world you have to buy it, so I also buy music. Getting a copy of a cd from a buddy is different than downloading your entire music library for free, and between that and finding new music on here from other members, that is how I find new music and after checking it out on YouTube, or some other way, if I like it I buy it. That's just the way I feel and I'm sure there are others out there that buy the majority of their music because if you want something, you should pay the person that makes it, be it cars or cloths or music.
Free recordings is the new business model. I haven't paid for music for a very long time and I get it all legally. If you don't adapt you will be left behind.
We all can do that. Where the business model is failing is that emerging technology has made it so we can't force others to reward those who make music.BIG97BEN said:
bongomania
Commercial User
Easy enough to say, but how exactly have you rewarded (paid) the musicians for their work? You haven't, right? So your point is that nobody will, and nobody should, because there's a legal way to do that. Fine, so artists should adapt to this new model... work for no pay. If you didn't mean that, then what do you mean when you say they should adapt? Adapt to what? Is there a system where they can make a living as musicians without getting paid?
I'm not just addressing that last question to you, but to everyone in this and similar threads who has said "adapt or be left behind".
The Todd Rundgren video explains it nicely. Music is a service. Recorded music is a loss leader. Live shows will be key. With solid branding and image then people will still buy merch.
Musicians could also sell download codes instead of physical music. The key will be offering higher quality audio and other incentives with the download.
Bjork turned her last album into an interactive iPhone app. It was pretty cool.
Social media is a key promo tool. It's very personal promotion, artists interact with fans directly, and nurture relationships with those fans. Instead of selling 10 people CDs @ $15 each, now you sell to 3 people..but it's $50 in CDs, shirts and tickets.
Ultimately I think fewer musicians will be able to make a living, but that's normal when an industry goes through a revolution. The best and most dedicated will stick around. And I'll keep playing for fun like always.
bongomania
Commercial User
For as long as there have been bands touring in support of an album, the TOUR was the loss leader, and the album sales were key. About the only way for a tour to make any profit is off the T-shirts.
They won't buy MORE merch than they already have been. IOW, even though merch = profit, the loss of music sales is just loss. There won't be any extra merch profit that wasn't already there.
The "higher quality" files would just get "shared" as soon as they were released. There is no difference with that versus the current failing model.
It was cool, but every review of it is either a hardcore fan who would buy her old socks, or someone complaining that it wasn't worth $12. Most artists don't have a legion of old-sock-buyers.
Again, how is this different from how it's always been? Build a buzz, friends tell friends, merch gets sold. Only now, artists should expect that nobody will pay for a recording.
Revolution? What, overthrowing the tyranny of having to pay for music? The best and most dedicated will stick around because the only alternative is to get a "real job". Not musician.
- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
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- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
Many people make the argument that touring is the answer, and only those bands who can play live and play well will make it. Unfortunately, this doesn't work for a majority of bands, myself included.
First of all, there's tons of artists who simply can't bring their music in a live setting. Listen to my track in my signature - it's all microtonal, and I built most of the instruments, programmed all the sounds, and played all the the parts. How am I supposed to turn this into a live show worth seeing? Form a band, build instruments for each member, and teach them a completely new form of notation? It's just not feasible. Not to mention that it's not exactly the kind of music that packs in the clubs - so I'd be playing in front of only a handful of people in some tiny art gallery somewhere, and most likely not be making any money. So on top of not making any income, there's all the expense of fuel, food, and lodging - so touring a massive loss as well. Touring just doesn't work for all types of music.
I am not alone in this. I know tons of fantastic musicians who simply cannot tour. How are they supposed to earn anything from their art?
First of all, there's tons of artists who simply can't bring their music in a live setting. Listen to my track in my signature - it's all microtonal, and I built most of the instruments, programmed all the sounds, and played all the the parts. How am I supposed to turn this into a live show worth seeing? Form a band, build instruments for each member, and teach them a completely new form of notation? It's just not feasible. Not to mention that it's not exactly the kind of music that packs in the clubs - so I'd be playing in front of only a handful of people in some tiny art gallery somewhere, and most likely not be making any money. So on top of not making any income, there's all the expense of fuel, food, and lodging - so touring a massive loss as well. Touring just doesn't work for all types of music.
I am not alone in this. I know tons of fantastic musicians who simply cannot tour. How are they supposed to earn anything from their art?
Revolution as in the end of the recording industry. Before it existed the music industry was the sheet music industry and today they are fighting a lossing battle also trying to keeps tabs, chords and even lyrics off of the free internet.
In a situation where any recording can be free a musician can only survive by getting people out of the house. Today with the low cost being twice the cost of a movie plus the house forces you to buy over priced beverages the average are not able to compete well enough to put their kids into exclusive schools.
In a situation where any recording can be free a musician can only survive by getting people out of the house. Today with the low cost being twice the cost of a movie plus the house forces you to buy over priced beverages the average are not able to compete well enough to put their kids into exclusive schools.
Career is over?
Rundgren's published schedule shows that between March 20th and July 21st 2012 he's got a tour of 19 dates with his own band and another 25 dates with Ringo and The All Stars Band, followed up by a 4 day Musical Revival Camp.
Career over? For some people that schedule in itself would constitute a career. Not bad for a guy closing in on 65.
iJazz - I kid you not!
I think, in the bigger picture, there will be much less opportunity to make a living as a musician, so fewer will be able to do so. In fact, that has been the general trend, as I've observed it (and this is only my anecdotal view, so I certainly could be wrong), for the past 40 years or so (and accelerating over the past 20 years), so it's not just digital downloading at play here.
I have paid for thousands upon thousands of records, tapes, CD's, concerts, thrown plenty of money in the busker's hats, etc. I support musicians by going to see who I like and buying merch from them. I have a small but reasonable budget that helps support my local old-school record store. Have I downloaded music without paying? Of course. Do I sometimes wrestle with the ethical ramifications of that? Of course. But from my perspective, music is made to be heard. Many of the songs I have downloaded "illegally" have led to an abundance of purchases... would it have been better for me to have never heard them in the first place?
Great article, and so many valid points. Thanks for sharing it.
I will say I am astounded and surprised by some of the responses from musicians/players in this thread though.
Cheers,
Dirk
I will say I am astounded and surprised by some of the responses from musicians/players in this thread though.
Cheers,
Dirk
I think most of us play for fun and we also work in industries which have been hit by revolutionary changes and job destruction. I don't think doing what would be necessary to prevent downloading would work anymore then trying to stop the march of technology so another generation can raise families as postmen or buggy whip makersDirk Diggler said:
After reading some of his responses to comments, I'm not impressed. He strikes me as someone who's sure he's got it all figured out. I NEVER trust people like that. If my kid were taking his college course, I'd ask for my money back.
The music industry simply needs to come to grips with the fact that every song ever recorded is not worth $1 in a crappy lossy format.
People -ARE- willing to pay for music. His own example of ~20 cents per song seems about right to me for back catalog stuff, for which recouping recording costs is not an issue. New material should be priced higher initially to recoup costs and because people will pay more for new content. Even at 40 cents per song, that's a big discount to today's unrealistic pricing.
The whole delivery mechanism is badly broken. Most of the time I cannot buy the music I want in a lossless format unless I purchase a physical CD (if I can find it), which is priced on a brick and mortal distribution model and which I am expected to store forever.
I buy a lot of used CDs, which is perfectly legal. How much $$$ goes to the artist? Zip, zilch, nada. This pains me enormously. I'm clearly willing to pay SOMETHING for music. How come artists can't figure out how to take my $$$?
Once upon a time, the movie industry priced movies at $50-$80 and was sure their industry was on the brink of extermination (sound familiar?). What they did was slash the prices about 60% and sales skyrocketed.
Do people still pirate movies? Sadly, yes, But the DVD market is where most movies actually turn a profit these days. People are buying more movies these days than ever before, and it keeps increasing! Blu-Ray fueled an entire new wave of folks backfilling their collections (i.e., the intellectual property holy grail of getting people to pay over and over for the same content). Movie piracy scarcely matters to their bottom line any more.
The music industry should quit whining and take note of the movie industries' lessons learned and move forward.
Just saying.
The music industry simply needs to come to grips with the fact that every song ever recorded is not worth $1 in a crappy lossy format.
People -ARE- willing to pay for music. His own example of ~20 cents per song seems about right to me for back catalog stuff, for which recouping recording costs is not an issue. New material should be priced higher initially to recoup costs and because people will pay more for new content. Even at 40 cents per song, that's a big discount to today's unrealistic pricing.
The whole delivery mechanism is badly broken. Most of the time I cannot buy the music I want in a lossless format unless I purchase a physical CD (if I can find it), which is priced on a brick and mortal distribution model and which I am expected to store forever.
I buy a lot of used CDs, which is perfectly legal. How much $$$ goes to the artist? Zip, zilch, nada. This pains me enormously. I'm clearly willing to pay SOMETHING for music. How come artists can't figure out how to take my $$$?
Once upon a time, the movie industry priced movies at $50-$80 and was sure their industry was on the brink of extermination (sound familiar?). What they did was slash the prices about 60% and sales skyrocketed.
Do people still pirate movies? Sadly, yes, But the DVD market is where most movies actually turn a profit these days. People are buying more movies these days than ever before, and it keeps increasing! Blu-Ray fueled an entire new wave of folks backfilling their collections (i.e., the intellectual property holy grail of getting people to pay over and over for the same content). Movie piracy scarcely matters to their bottom line any more.
The music industry should quit whining and take note of the movie industries' lessons learned and move forward.
Just saying.
Cassettes didn't kill the industry, and magnetic tape "theft" was RAMPANT. The difference? There was no "proof." No trail of the tape, as it were. No digital tracking of who gave it, who has it, etc. The G didn't haul you off for having a shoebox of cassettes with handwritten labels on them.
We are dealing with the death of the album, and traditional industry, due to the combination of King Convinvince, Temple Of Self, and Cost Over Quality.
I started out buying music like a mofo. Got to college, found electronic music (and its recreational activites) and dived into napster when it hit. Just for obscure electro however (Aphex Twin, etc). Then I got out of that phase (elec) and still had a plethora of free sites I knew...so I started downloading ENTIRE CATALOGUES of "normal" bands. Beatles, hendrix, etc. New music when it came out. And I didn't give a crap about it anymore. Who cares if its stolen, or my computer breaks down. I can re-yoink it! But if someone would have stolen my 500 cd booklet in high school, I would have cried my eyes out. Possibly cutter stuff. When I got out of college I handn't listened to a whole album straight in 6 years. Just a 200,000 song shuffle.
Then I started playing Bass seriously. Then I started playing music live seriously. And stopped it stone cold. On priciple. How could I? How increcible would it be to JUST plug in for a living? How the &&&& do you do that now? Win a d@mn facebook popularity contest, and digi bug the living &&&& out of everyone you know, and they know. Barf. Its like paybacks for downloading all that music. Hump Comps for pleasure, now hump them or starve.
Then I got into vinyl...and its been religious! And most vinyl comes with at least one download card. Sometimes if a vinyl version is delayed (recent spiritualized album), they email you a download code the day before it even drops. Which is beyond amazing. I prefer to convert my own vinyl to digital for portability (and better formats) I hand the download code to a friend/family member. Thus a vinyl purchase 80% of the time is a two-copy purchase these days.
I think vinyl is the perfect "rehabilitation" for download junkies. And it has the added benefit of offering the rest of the sonic spectrum the pirated copies chop for file shrinking (mp3's). Don't arrest them! Ban them from the internet for three years and buy them a turntable and a reciever and some garage sale speakers and some speaker wire! Way cheaper than all booking/paperwork/legal process.
I celibrate the variety of opinion on this thread.
We are dealing with the death of the album, and traditional industry, due to the combination of King Convinvince, Temple Of Self, and Cost Over Quality.
I started out buying music like a mofo. Got to college, found electronic music (and its recreational activites) and dived into napster when it hit. Just for obscure electro however (Aphex Twin, etc). Then I got out of that phase (elec) and still had a plethora of free sites I knew...so I started downloading ENTIRE CATALOGUES of "normal" bands. Beatles, hendrix, etc. New music when it came out. And I didn't give a crap about it anymore. Who cares if its stolen, or my computer breaks down. I can re-yoink it! But if someone would have stolen my 500 cd booklet in high school, I would have cried my eyes out. Possibly cutter stuff. When I got out of college I handn't listened to a whole album straight in 6 years. Just a 200,000 song shuffle.
Then I started playing Bass seriously. Then I started playing music live seriously. And stopped it stone cold. On priciple. How could I? How increcible would it be to JUST plug in for a living? How the &&&& do you do that now? Win a d@mn facebook popularity contest, and digi bug the living &&&& out of everyone you know, and they know. Barf. Its like paybacks for downloading all that music. Hump Comps for pleasure, now hump them or starve.
Then I got into vinyl...and its been religious! And most vinyl comes with at least one download card. Sometimes if a vinyl version is delayed (recent spiritualized album), they email you a download code the day before it even drops. Which is beyond amazing. I prefer to convert my own vinyl to digital for portability (and better formats) I hand the download code to a friend/family member. Thus a vinyl purchase 80% of the time is a two-copy purchase these days.
I think vinyl is the perfect "rehabilitation" for download junkies. And it has the added benefit of offering the rest of the sonic spectrum the pirated copies chop for file shrinking (mp3's). Don't arrest them! Ban them from the internet for three years and buy them a turntable and a reciever and some garage sale speakers and some speaker wire! Way cheaper than all booking/paperwork/legal process.
I celibrate the variety of opinion on this thread.
