A first-upgrade bass amp

[AcridSaint]

Carvin just started their 20% off sale. If you want to go for a combo, you can do the MB210 and it will come in under budget. You could probably even add the second 210 extension for your budget with the discount. I think you can even get them to do a custom vinyl covering for the "cool" factor, but it's not a cart option anymore so you may have to call. I have the BX500 and it's a clean amp that you can record off of. I don't doubt the BX250 (which is what they put in the MB210) is similar.

If you wanted to go even smaller (and a little cheaper) you could go for the MB110 and add the same 210 extension. The amp is the same. It'll save you about 10lbs, $60, and cost you a little volume vs the MB210.

The down side is that you can't audition them before you buy unless you can go do their San Diego store.

 

[Wicked G]

Wow, that's a lot of love for the Fender Rumbles! I was personally leaning toward the Ampeg SVT, and my son seems enamored with the TonePrint function of the TC Electronic BH250 (plus, the black and red cabinet design is undeniably cool looking -- which, again, is a factor that he places WAY too much value on, in my opinion).

My only concern about the Rumbles is that they sort of split the sweet spot to either side for our situation. I'd fear that the 200C wouldn't be loud enough to play over the drums and the 1 x 15 would exacerbate the muddiness and bass buildup in my 300 square foot studio (I base that only on my reading about 1 x 15 vs 2 x 10, not through personal experience; please correct me if you think I'm wrong). The 500C is $600 and perhaps more power than needed.

The "not loud enough" and "damn, it's expensive" concerns worry me about the SVT Micro and BH250, as well. That's why I was strongly considering the used PF350 w/ 2 x 10 cab at Guitar Center for $430. Of course, buying brick-and-mortar means another $35 tax vs. buying from Sweetwater, so not as great a deal as it seems. It just seems like the absolute ideal product for our specific need doesn't exist. So if I have to get out of my comfort zone, I guess I just need advice from people with real-world experience. Is 200 watts enough? Is a 2 x 10 a better fit for my studio than 1 x 15? That sort of thing. I wish I could demo a few in-home, but can't.

I deeply explored other options, including the Carvin BX250 w/ 2 x 10 cab, a Markbass Littlemark 250 w/ 102P Traveler (sweet!), a GK MB200 w/ CX210 and more. All were out of my price range new. This is going to be a gift, so I'd really prefer new unless it was a really good deal, which I think the used PF350 at GC is. Quality used gear can be hard to come by on Craigslist, as well, and I don't want to wait months. eBay is an option, but can be even more challenging than CL because of the high cost to ship a cabinet.

Additionally, I ruled out some other brands that (fairly or unfairly), I have always perceived to be a step below industry heavyweights. These included Peavey and Acoustic, and honestly TC Electronic, but my son really loved the TonePrint and tuner functions of the BH250, so I kept them in consideration.

I know I'm all over the place and this sort of newbie question must be irritating to forum regulars who have seen it asked and answered ad nauseum. I appreciate your indulgence and advice!

While I agree that Peavey and Acoustic are not industry heavy weights, TC Electronic is being used by heavy weights such as John Paul Jones and Roger Glover just to name a very few. And if your son wants that amp and cab, why would you get him something else? You do want him to be motivated right? I know that if it was me and my parents got me something other than what I wanted, all my motivation would be killed right there. Just saying.

 

[pglaser01]

I picked this up in the TB classifieds a couple years ago to use as a home practice rig. Its a MB112-II combo with a 112MBP powered cabinet. I paid under $500 for the stack. 400 watts and two 12's.

Sounds great and is decently lightweight. I think around 35lbs per cabinet. It now lives at our rehearsal space and easily keeps up with a four piece rock band.

I have other rigs for gigging but would not hesitate to play small to medium sized gigs with this setup if the need ever arose.

Also with the GK powered cabs you can keep adding.

The GK MB210 is my rig of choice (I have the old silver grill style) but that is 350 watts thru the 210. I added a GK MBX 410 to open up the full 500 watts....plus those GK combos and powered cabs are LIGHT.

 

[AcridSaint]

Was re-reading your post and wanted to say that I would be careful with the used PF350. The early PF500s had a tendency to die and I don't know if that was isolated to them or also the 350s. If you are set on it, I would do the homework to make sure you're getting a "good" one and maybe even consider the GC pro plan if it's cheap.

 

[madmanmerc]

Clearly, he needs an Ampeg SVT head and 8x10 refrigerator!!!

Seriously though, the PF300 + 210 is a sweet combination

+1

 

[fhm555]

from your short list I'd pick the Rumble 500, but only because I have one and really like it for what it is and how easy it is to haul. I've also got a Carvin BX500 I use through a couple of 112 cabs and it also sounds killer. You could start him with the BX500 and a single 12 for your studio and later when the need arises, pick up a second 112.

That said, if he's amped about the TC and you can indulge him, then why not. If he's like me when I was that age, I never wanted to practice, mostly because I just knew there was something going on outside I was missing while I was inside. By the time he gets to the point he needs something to play out with, he'll be old enough to cut grass and pay for it himself and you can keep the TC at home for him to use there.

 

[Stumbo]

Yes, the studio is mine and, honestly, calling it a "studio" oversells it somewhat! It's the room where all my gear and recording computer sit.

There is a small drum stage in one corner w/ a Gretsch Catalina Maple Kit. The bass amp sits in an adjacent corner. On the opposite end of the room is my desk with my mixer/interface, studio monitors, PA speaker, etc. The photos below were taken from approximately the same spot in the middle of the room, looking both directions down the long axis of the room. (BRAG! the drum stage and studio desk are both DIY projects of which I'm quite proud!)

There is one large throw rug in the middle of the room. The ceiling tiles (allegedly) have some minimal absorption. I guess while I'm bragging of DIY skills, I should also point out that when I originally studding out the room, putting up drywall and install flooring/ceiling, I had the perfect opportunity to put rockwool or similar insulation into the walls between the studs but did not because this room was originally a home office. Only later did i convert it to a studio and that missed opportunity is my biggest regret about this room.

I have considered some DIY bass traps and first-reflection absorption but the room is already so small that I hate making it even more cramped than it already is. At the very least, I should probably put SOME kind of absorption up on the wood paneling on the walls and ceiling of the stage. It gets really loud.

We have a pair a headphone-style ear protection for my son, but we don't use it as often as we should. We also bought some bluetooth headphones so he can practice along with his SoR songs on YouTube, but also use it less than we should because then I can't hear the song and help him pick out the parts. The next step, I think, will be a multi-receiver IEM solution so we can both hear the song and protect our ears. Especially his. I'm old and blind already, so what if I go deaf, too?

View attachment 1181300

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I suggest taking the bass cab out of the corner and putting it up on a stand(another DIY) under a pad to disconnect it from the floor.

Cool studio! . Or maybe a put up some carpet pieces on the wall.

 

[Baltimore Bass]

I have an Ampeg Micro VR, and it's one of the best-sounding amps I've ever played. It's got mojo and I love it.

That said, the Rumble has the volume to keep up with a drummer and guitarist. When I play bar gigs with the Micro VR (it's definitely too small for clubs,) I have to run a line out to the PA for more throw.

Bottom line: for me, the VR is worth it. But if I didn't have PA support, I'd be happier with the greater power the Rumble provides.

 

[Lvjoebass]

If you can do the t c he really wants you won't regret it! Us older guys are somewhat influenced by the classic looks of the v3 fenders and they sound darn good!

 

[Buzz E]

from your short list I'd pick the Rumble 500, but only because I have one and really like it for what it is and how easy it is to haul. I've also got a Carvin BX500 I use through a couple of 112 cabs and it also sounds killer. You could start him with the BX500 and a single 12 for your studio and later when the need arises, pick up a second 112.

That said, if he's amped about the TC and you can indulge him, then why not. If he's like me when I was that age, I never wanted to practice, mostly because I just knew there was something going on outside I was missing while I was inside. By the time he gets to the point he needs something to play out with, he'll be old enough to cut grass and pay for it himself and you can keep the TC at home for him to use there.

This. The TC has some pretty cool features a young teenager (or anyone for that matter) would like. He's 12. He can grow with something else in a few years with the latest and greatest. Forcing something else on him might backfire and he'll hate it.

 

[scadh]

Guys/gals, I am humbled by the tremendous response to my post! Thank you all so much for your time and consideration. By comparison, my identical post in Gearslutz' bass forum has 1 reply...

TB sure looks to be a vibrant and helpful community. While my ignorance of the topic at hand must be painfully obvious to the pros here, every reply has been considerate and helpful, with not a single hint of condescension anywhere to be found. Bravo, TB.

Tonight, my son and I had a discussion about the things that are most important in a bass amp. Without hesitation, he replied "Well, the sound, of course", so that's encouraging. I explained to him that we're considering several options, all of which he would be happy with and would represent a huge step up from his current amp. I assured him that, though I might make the final call, the choice would not necessarily be the amp that I want but the one that is the best fit for him. He seemed content. Based upon my research and the help provided in this thread, I don't think I can make a bad choice at this point. All that's left to do is make it!

 

[JimmyM]

CONTENDERS

The leaders in the clubhouse are:

- Ampeg SVT Micro VR w/ SVT-210AV 2 x 10 cabinet
- TC Electronic BH250 w/ K210 2 x 10 cabinet
- Fender Rumble 200 1 x 15 combo or Fender Rumble 500 2 x 10 combo

Additionally, a local Guitar Center has a used Ampeg PF350 w/ PF210HE 2 x 10 cabinet selling at $430. It's in good cosmetic shape but I'm concerned there is a mechanical issue somewhere. The volume was well below what I expected. I demo'd it and several others yesterday, including the Rumble 200. When listening to each amp, I zeroed out all EQ settings, disabled any sound-shaping options like "Vintage" on the Fenders, and set gain and master volume to 50%. Even 100 watt combo amps were significantly louder than the PF350/PF210HE. The GC rep said he'd ask their tech to take a look at it today. If the issue is corrected (or if it's pilot error -- I'm no bassist!), I think this sounds like a good deal and a good fit for our needs.

There is nothing wrong with the PF350. I don't know why anyone hasn't mentioned this yet, but you are mistaking knob position as a correlation to how much power is in an amp. All amps are different, and their knobs do not correspond to each other.

And since I have both a Micro VR and PF350, I can offer some insight. The Micro VR and PF350 have the exact same preamps but they have different power amps. The Micro VR is what's called "class AB" while the PF350 is what's called "class D." I've noticed that the Micro VR is actually louder when you set the gain and master at noon. But the PF350 catches it and surpasses it once you go past that point. It's all because the power amps inside them are different.

Was re-reading your post and wanted to say that I would be careful with the used PF350. The early PF500s had a tendency to die and I don't know if that was isolated to them or also the 350s.

It was isolated to the PF500.

 

[Bassquest]

The Ampeg SVT Micro VR w/ SVT-210AV 2 x 10 cabinet will give you the smallest footprint, looks cool and will provide plenty of volume and tone in your space. Trust me.

 

[Relsom]

I skipped ahead but got the gist of what you are asking. I would go with a used Rumle 500 head, $300 or sometimes less in the TH Classifieds, and decent cab. Point being, that head is one that he can grow with and sounds great. Cab choice? Nothing comes to mind since I only have direct experience with that head and a Rumble 4x10. Am I right that you want a smaller footprint than a 4x10? Anyway.....I'd get Rumble 500.

 

[Hounddog409]

GK all day.

This. I have a rumble and do not like the tone.

The real answer is your son will need to listen to each and chose the one he thinks sounds best.

I would vote Mesa, but this is not in your price range, so GK would be my choice.

 

[Mammoth_Bass]

I have the TC BH250 and RS210. Plenty of volume for practice as well as good size gigs. Their cabs are lighter than most aside from higher end manufacturers (markbass). Also you can always ad a cab or upgrade the head down the line if need be (but probably won't need to)

The toneprint is cool and might be a good way to encourage practice. You can find a BH250 used for around 200$ and I got my cab for around $300.

Check out the Mini Rig of Doom thread for more compact and light ideas

Mini Rigs of Doom Four

 

[Kro]

Here's another vote for a GK 700RB. My very first real amp was a 700RB-i (the "ii" model is the current version), and that amp IMO was the perfect first amp - inexpensive, excellent sound, and more importantly professional grade - it's not just a starter amp. That thing got me through a number of years of solid gigging and never bat an eye.

Can't recommend a used 700RB strongly enough.

 

[johnson79]

Fender Rumble 500 or GK MB210. Personally I would avoid the Ampeg micro and the TC. Maybe a larger Ampeg combo, but I've never really cared for those.

 

[JohnPaulSmith]

I gig with a Rumble 200 combo. Volume is NOT an issue. He will be heard over the drums. It's light and I put wheels on it so it's dead simple to transport and move around.

 

[otp57]

I'm posting this to Gearslutz and Talkbass with the hope of quickly reaching as many people as possible. Apologies for the double post if you should stumble across it on both sites.
I'm looking for an appropriate "first upgrade" to the starter bass amp (Ampeg BA108) we got my son when he began playing bass 2.5 years ago. Our requirements are many and specific and, in truth, possibily unattainable when taken in the aggregate! With that in mind, I'm hoping I can outline my situation and get advice from experts on these forums, whose expertise and understanding greatly exceeds my own!

SON

He turned 12 last week. He's still several years away from having Paul McCartney open for him on his bands' first World Tour. He plays a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar short-scale bass.

Bass is his second instrument; he's a drummer first. His bass chops are well behind where he's at on drums, but he enjoys playing and is improving rapidly. He has a good ear and intuitively understands how rock/pop songs are arranged.

He's a member of the House Band at a local School of Rock chapter and gigs often (50+ shows before his 12th birthday). The setlists are almost exclusively classic rock from the 60's through the 80's, with the occasional crossover pop/country hit thrown in.

STUDIO

The studio where we practice is approximately 20' x 15'. It has Pergo laminate flooring and a drop ceiling with acoustic tiles. It's a pleasant space but is otherwise completely untreated with bass traps, diffusers, etc.

BUDGET

I'd like to stay below $600 USD, preferably closer to $500.

PIE-IN-THE-SKY HOPE

Given all of the above, I'm looking for an amp that meets these criteria to the largest degree possible:

- Good tone at any volume, with aesthetics "cool" enough to inspire him to play and, even more importantly, to practice (which he does NOT love).

- Small footprint and relatively lightweight. School of Rock provides gear for the shows and band practices he has now but I'm certain he'll be forming his first band within 2 years -- so he'll need to cart this rig around soon. He's still a little guy and can't lug around a cabinet that outweighs him.

- Enough power to be heard over a drum kit when practicing and to get the job done at a gig if properly mic'd into the PA.

- Something that he will not outgrow for years (if ever), but that is also not overkill. My money-tree withered and died years ago and we aren't playing Arrowhead Stadium anytime soon.

- Prefer a 2 x 10 to a 1 x 15, given the modestly-sized studio. It's can get fairly muddy in here.

CONTENDERS

The leaders in the clubhouse are:

- Ampeg SVT Micro VR w/ SVT-210AV 2 x 10 cabinet
- TC Electronic BH250 w/ K210 2 x 10 cabinet
- Fender Rumble 200 1 x 15 combo or Fender Rumble 500 2 x 10 combo

Additionally, a local Guitar Center has a used Ampeg PF350 w/ PF210HE 2 x 10 cabinet selling at $430. It's in good cosmetic shape but I'm concerned there is a mechanical issue somewhere. The volume was well below what I expected. I demo'd it and several others yesterday, including the Rumble 200. When listening to each amp, I zeroed out all EQ settings, disabled any sound-shaping options like "Vintage" on the Fenders, and set gain and master volume to 50%. Even 100 watt combo amps were significantly louder than the PF350/PF210HE. The GC rep said he'd ask their tech to take a look at it today. If the issue is corrected (or if it's pilot error -- I'm no bassist!), I think this sounds like a good deal and a good fit for our needs.

SUMMARY

So, all I want is an amp that's small and lightweight yet has plenty of power (but not TOO much), has killer tone, looks great, works perfectly in every studio and stage role, is ideal both now and in the future, and that is dirt cheap.

Easy, right?

Fender Rumble 500 2 x 10 combo hard to beat for sound and money.