A personal insight on Fender popularity...

[Jim Carr]

Yet another silly thread by a Fender hater trying to change the world.

+1 x 42 trillion

Jimmy--I doubt you will see this post, but yours was as far as I was willing to wade into this silliness. I tried. I really tried.

I think what we also may have here is a troll that wants to use sincerity as a cloaking device.

But fine. It just helps remind me to get away from TB and back to practicing. Now.

 

[GeneralElectric]

I have an SX P/J, and I love the simplicity of the design, and I love playing it, but I would NEVER own an instrument that said Fender on the headstock. I look at a P-bass the same way I look at an old Ford from the 1950's: "Wow look at that neat old thing, look how far we've come since then."

Yes, in more than 50 years we've added a J pickup to your Fender copy and its made by 8 year old kids in China.

IMO, the only thing fender has changed in the past 30 years is the price. There are many cheaper better basses. However, to each their own.

I wouldn't say they're better or worse. However 90% of the cheap POS market is Fender copies FYI

 

[Scott in Dallas]

Wow, another pro-Fender / anti-Fender rant thread. I thought these were against the rules. Oh well, let's dive in.

The Fender bass design is great. The Fender bass sound is great. The Fender bass feel is great. On and off for much of its recent history, Fender quality has been so-so, but Fender's resale value is insane, so the beanie baby factor makes it desirable. Anyone that plays electric bass could reasonably be required to have a Leo Fender tattoo somewhere on their person. Showing a little respect for his creations and contributions isn't asking too much, IMO.

I'd purchase, play and love a Fender any day of the week. In many cases it's not significantly better than many of the knockoffs, and it doesn't measure up to many made in USA basses that don't command nearly the price. Doesn't stop me from loving them. Attempts by some to deny its value and influence to music in the 20th century are puzzling to me.

Some people love them unreasonably, and others hate them unreasonably. Neither side has yet to make a convincing case. They usually serve to provide the rest of us with endless amusement.

 

[GeneralElectric]

Last I checked you do not need to be an English major to be a bass player or to have an opinion.

You also don't have to pass a third grade English class to post on TB either.

 

[mongo2]

Ya, maybe if Tutmarc had the werewithall to wait 8 or 9 years like the Fender did, it might have caught on, but I still think Fender would have still emerged as king because it's just that good.

Paul Tutmarc's Audiovox 736 bass came out in '35. Fender brought out the Precision in late '51. Tutmarc didn't have the marketing, sales or production facilities of Fender and the world simply wasn't ready for an electric bass on a large scale. I dont' think the world was really ready in '51 either and some segments of the music world still aren't quite ready for it.

I love the sound samples of the Audiovox 736 on the EMP site but those of the Fender sound terrible IMO.

 

[GeneralElectric]

Paul Tutmarc's Audiovox 736 bass came out in '35. Fender brought out the Precision in late '51. Tutmarc didn't have the marketing, sales or production facilities of Fender and the world simply wasn't ready for an electric bass on a large scale. I dont' think the world was really ready in '51 either and some segments of the music world still aren't quite ready for it.

I love the sound samples of the Audiovox 736 on the EMP site but those of the Fender sound terrible IMO.

Where do you get clips on that Audiovox?

I wanna listen.

 

[savit260]

Where do you get clips on that Audiovox?

I wanna listen.

Click on "timeline" and run your cursor over the instrumet.

Funny , unless my hearing is off, the 1940 Gibson, and the Audiovox, sound almost exactly alike, like it's the same audio clip,or at least the same source. Maybe someone with better speakers can tell if there's a difference.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[GeneralElectric]

When you click it and they play the walking lines, they sound very different.

I actually really dig that Gibson!

 

[Brad Johnson]

You are right, Jimmy, but you could say this a million times and people would still believe that Fender was the only bass guitar available in the '50s. It could be that people don't know about the others because so many of them came and went, whereas Fender remained popular. Also, people believe what they want to believe.

BTW, I saw an electric bass guitar at the Experience Music Museum in Seattle that was made in the '30s. I can't remember for sure, but I think it was made by Univox.

The obvious problem is that despite people telling them repeatedly in the thread they're reading that Fender was not the only choice back then, they still say the same silly thing over again. What's up with that? What is wrong with people?


Ignorance is simply not knowing something. Stupid is refusing to acknowledge something in an attemp to remain ignorant.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yes, in more than 50 years we've added a J pickup to your Fender copy and its made by 8 year old kids in China.



I wouldn't say they're better or worse. However 90% of the cheap POS market is Fender copies FYI

If you'd actually check out the current crop of cheap basses, you might be surprised to find that very few are POS.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Personally I started out with a hate towards fender. When I was a beginner I would try out different basses here and there. I started out with an Ibanez and kept it for a while, modding stuff here and there. The Fenders and Squires that I tried were always plagued with the same problems. High action, uncomfortable, and never sounded right. The sound was lacking bass and at times it sounded to "tin like". Most of these accounts were from playing peoples basses in high school and a few at guitar center. Most of these problems are in the actual setup of the bass.

It wasn't until my senior year in high school that I actually found a nice fender, that I modded, and now have a different opinion about them. I know what to look for in fenders now, but like a lot have said it's either hit or miss with them. I believe for most of my time playing bass, I've managed to strike more misses then hits with them. I look forward to custom shop, vintage, and some factory line construction ( most notable MIA '08 Jazz).

Lots of people think high action is a "problem".

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

The obvious problem is that despite people telling them repeatedly in the thread they're reading that Fender was not the only choice back then, they still say the same silly thing over again. What's up with that? What is wrong with people?

I would be interested in what people have to say about the possibility or concept that it is NOT that Fender was not the only electric bass in the market or being made, but rather, that the Fender bass may have been the only real world choice of electric bass at some point via better distribution/marketing than other brands. Or not? Were they the more affordable choice? Or not?

It seems to me being able to grab one off the wall and actually try it, and the ability afford it are two very, very important factors in why things catch on. They are today, and I feel I can safely assume in the 50s it was no different. Perhaps moreso.

As a modern equivalent (I think): Carvins have been around for years, and before I was born. And I could buy one now and have it on my doorstep next week. I've been able to do that for 20 years. But short of buying first and then trying... ...I can tell you that I've actually been able to get my hands on only three of them in all these years (secondhand) in stores to try out. For better or worse, I live in the Eastern US, and I believe the Carvin factory is out West? Meanwhile, I have played countless Fenders.

And what to make of the 50s?

Sure, there might have been Ricks, Gibsons, Tutamarks, etc... but how many people could really get their hands on them? Want to talk about influences of designs, sound and all that? Cool. How about distribution and marketing?

I could imagine some music store in the 50s getting "this newfangled Telecaster-looking thing called an 'electric' bass" and it being the only one in a store that was otherwise full of guitars, banjos, band instruments and so on. Whether other brands were technically able to be purchased (as we all can now play armchair historians that way), is it an academic point that glosses over what might have perhaps been a singular availability of a Fender brand bass?

I do not know the answer on this one.

Brad, not dissagreeing or agreeing, but using your latest post as a springboard to an aspect which I don't think has been addressed head-on in this thread.

Thanks.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I would be interested in what people have to say about the possibility or concept that it is NOT that Fender was not the only electric bass in the market or being made, but rather, that the Fender bass may have been the only real world choice of electric bass at some point via better distribution/marketing than other brands. Or not? Were they the more affordable choice? Or not?

No, Fender most definitely wasn't the more affordable choice, that would be Kay and basses of that ilk. As a child of the late 60's (I was born in 1956) I saw a lot of different basses being used.

It seems to me being able to grab one off the wall and actually try it, and the ability afford it are two very, very important factors in why things catch on. They are today, and I feel I can safely assume in the 50s it was no different. Perhaps moreso.

Then the basses at Sears and Montgomery Ward, along with Western Auto and Lafayette stores were probably what most people were personally exposed to. Far more of those stores than music stores back then. The idea of me getting a new Fender was only slightly less foreign to me than getting a new split window 'Vette. $300 might as well be $3,000 back then.

We had Vox, Teisco Del Ray, Silvertone and a host of no name instruments available among other things.

As a modern equivalent (I think): Carvins have been around for years, and before I was born. And I could buy one now and have it on my doorstep next week. I've been able to do that for 20 years. But short of buying first and then trying... ...I can tell you that I've actually been able to get my hands on only three of them in all these years (secondhand) in stores to try out. For better or worse, I live in the Eastern US, and I believe the Carvin factory is out West? Meanwhile, I have played countless Fenders.

I've owned a new Carvin and over the last 20 years have seen a bunch of used ones... of course nowhere near the amount of Fenders.

And what to make of the 50s?

Sure, there might have been Ricks, Gibsons, Tutamarks, etc... but how many people could really get their hands on them? Want to talk about influences of designs, sound and all that? Cool. How about distribution and marketing?

See the department and hardware stores referenced above.

I could imagine some music store in the 50s getting "this newfangled Telecaster-looking thing called an 'electric' bass" and it being the only one in a store that was otherwise full of guitars, banjos, band instruments and so on. Whether other brands were technically able to be purchased (as we all can now play armchair historians that way), is it an academic point that glosses over what might have perhaps been a singular availability of a Fender brand bass?

I guess the difference is that I'm not playing armchair historian, during the mid 60's I was there

I do not know the answer on this one.

There were other brands. Fender won the popularity contest for various reasons, not the least of which was that they were higher quality instruments and they worked. Not like the greenburst with brushed and smooth pinstripe metal pickguard with tremolo and Vegamatic (tm) pushbuttons "basses" some of us got to play... if we were lucky.

Brad, not dissagreeing or agreeing, but using your latest post as a springboard to an aspect which I don't think has been addressed head-on in this thread.

Thanks.

I know. A lot of those brands have been forgotten but they certainly existed. Fender wasn't the only choice, not by a long shot. That has been addressed but some are still acting like there was one choice.

 

[JimmyM]

And just to add onto Brad's reply to you, but at the very least, Gibsons were equally as available as Fenders in the 50's since they were two of the three biggest brands of guitars, Gibson having way more prestige than Fender. And though Brad is significantly older than the rest of us , I was checking out guitar and bass inventories in stores near me by 1973, and believe it or not, Fenders and Gibsons were way harder to get for us than other brands. You could get many other cheaper brands at the store 3 minutes away from my house, but you had to drive 35 minutes to Orlando to get a Fender or Gibson. So it's not like other brands never had a chance.

 

[GeneralElectric]

If you'd actually check out the current crop of cheap basses, you might be surprised to find that very few are POS.

I've tried out a couple. The Squier TB Precision was surprisingly good.

I live in a major city. And you would be surprised about how many POS basses really do exist in the sticks where I live. I remember playing a really cool Stingray copy in a... ethnic neighborhood... and the store owner was trying to get me to buy it in broken Spanglish. I was going to buy it as a platform for mods, before I decided to see how it sounded slaps. Frets fell out.

Then again, I try to avoid music stores pretty much. TB caused me to spend $4000 this year. Imagine if I went into music stores to just browse?

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Fender wasn't the only choice, not by a long shot. That has been addressed but some are still acting like there was one choice.

Ok, well thanks. Learning a little something.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I've tried out a couple. The Squier TB Precision was surprisingly good.

I live in a major city. And you would be surprised about how many POS basses really do exist in the sticks where I live. I remember playing a really cool Stingray copy in a... ethnic neighborhood... and the store owner was trying to get me to buy it in broken Spanglish. I was going to buy it as a platform for mods, before I decided to see how it sounded slaps. Frets fell out.

Then again, I try to avoid music stores pretty much. TB caused me to spend $4000 this year. Imagine if I went into music stores to just browse?

If that constitutes "the current crop" in your mind, cool. It sounds like one bad experience to me.

Maybe you meant the current crop... in an ethnic neighborhood. Because that's somehow relevant.



If you're really seeing that many bad NEW basses... . I mention new because used shouldn't count. I've seen abused basses in every price range.

 

[Brad Johnson]

And just to add onto Brad's reply to you, but at the very least, Gibsons were equally as available as Fenders in the 50's since they were two of the three biggest brands of guitars, Gibson having way more prestige than Fender. And though Brad is significantly older than the rest of us , I was checking out guitar and bass inventories in stores near me by 1973, and believe it or not, Fenders and Gibsons were way harder to get for us than other brands. You could get many other cheaper brands at the store 3 minutes away from my house, but you had to drive 35 minutes to Orlando to get a Fender or Gibson. So it's not like other brands never had a chance.

The coolest Gibson was the Les Paul Recording model IMO.
SGs were popular as were EBs but I don't remember what either cost back then. The LPR was an arm an a leg... IOW unobtainable.

 

[JimmyM]

The coolest Gibson was the Les Paul Recording model IMO.
SGs were popular as were EBs but I don't remember what either cost back then. The LPR was an arm an a leg... IOW unobtainable.

My cousin Steve had a Les Paul Recording bass that he used with a V4B/810. He sold me his amp but I could never get him to part with the LPR. Just as well, though...it was HEAVY!!! But I really liked the small and medium scale basses at the time so I wanted it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

My cousin Steve had a Les Paul Recording bass that he used with a V4B/810. He sold me his amp but I could never get him to part with the LPR. Just as well, though...it was HEAVY!!! But I really liked the small and medium scale basses at the time so I wanted it.

Yeah, it's a boat anchor. I just thought at the time it was a very cool looking bass. I ended up getting a Hagstrom Big Swede in the late 70's and used it for a couple of years as my main bass. Also very heavy.