A question for the the 'old-timers'...

[Ian Perge]

I'm coming up on 20 years playing (in a matter of a few months) and have consistently posted about how low-end/"Beginner"/"Starter" basses have risen in quality dramatically - I remember when I was starting out I had friends that quit playing because of sheer playability issues with their instruments. You'd have to work pretty hard to find the same these days.

Also as many have posted, modern mid-range basses have easily equalled or topped the quality of "high-end" basses that were made until the "Luthier Explosion" of the late '70s with Spector, Alembic, Ken Smith, Fodora and others (I don't really think there was such a thing as a "High-End Bass" until they came along). However, something I've been thinking about is that there's been somewhat of a stall in "High-End" basses since the early-to-mid '90s. Sure, existing manufactures have increased QC, added improved electronics, parts, and woods not used back then, and the individual components such as the above have improved, but there hasn't been a Paradigm Shift in the field since then. I'll have to give this some more thought as to *why* this is, but it's an interesting POV...

 

[Bass Viking]

Good for you-The examples of over-rated vintage that I own are so freaking buttery and effing magical and
so worth the money that you would have to play mine to believe them

I'm basing my opinion on the ones I've played. Even a couple of vintage owners I've talked too said their instruments were really no better than new ones. I also owned a Gibson Grabber, which I bought new in 1975, so I guess that counts as vintage. It was decent but nothing special. People describe old basses as magical but new ones can be magical too.

especially in your world of sadowskys and dingwalls-did someone mention overpriced. Have fun.

You forgot my Ken Smith. Speaking of overpriced, my Smith, Dingwall, and Sadowsky together cost less than many a vintage Fender. And I paid less than $300 for that Grabber back in the 70s. Now they go for 3 times that amount!

I assume you've played a Sadowsky and a Dingwall?

 

[Bass Viking]

I'm coming up on 20 years playing (in a matter of a few months) and have consistently posted about how low-end/"Beginner"/"Starter" basses have risen in quality dramatically - I remember when I was starting out I had friends that quit playing because of sheer playability issues with their instruments. You'd have to work pretty hard to find the same these days.

+1. I rented my son an inexpensive Squier PJ bass and it sounded pretty darn good. It definitely needed some setup work but after that it was ready to rock. Unfortunately, I couldn't play it because it was a lefty (I'm one of those lefty-who-plays-righty people).

 

[ProfGumby]

Never better than they used to. The quality and sound of entry level basses has never been better! And cnc machining has made the gaps in quality few and far in between.

And even with a lot of the modern machinery, there is an even bigger place in the world for boutique builders, who's products also have never been better and certainly rival even the best of the vintage mass produced basses so many covet today.

 

[Wesley R]

Certain basses from the past are just way to cool.
Using an inflaion calculator $350 in 1968, is over $2,000. A hundred bucks bought a JC penny bass, no case in 1968. That hundred now is over $600, that will get you a mighty fine playable instrument. Not the world, but something very acceptable.

 

[GRISSLEHEAD]

I've been playing bass for 39 yrs.......Electronics,Wood,Strings,etc.etc.etc. It's all better today compared to back then, but not to say that the Quality vintage instruments(Fender,Gibson) of back in the day weren't good....because back then they were top-of-the-line, you couldn't buy any better then those.When you showed up on a gig with a fender bass or a Les Paul guitar....you were the shiznit. The inexpensive instruments back then were just .........cheaply made junk that couldn't take the beating or pressure of gigging day to day ( and the funny part about that is.......today a Kay,Harmony etc.etc. bass or guitar is considered a classic/vintage instrument.) Yes....they stood the test of time and are in fine shape because they've been in somebodies closet for the past 40yrs. Why ????.... because they're unplayable with strings 1" off the fretboard whereas any 40yr. old Gibson or Fender are still in perfect playing condition although they have the "ROAD WORN / RELIC/ SEVERELY USED " look. Hey.....but what the hell do I know ?
Consided this.....back in 1971 I purchased a new Fender Jazz Bass w/ hardshell case,cord,strap.......for $309.00 and in 1971 that was big money and it wasn't easy to come by, today you can by a quality bass anywhere from $129.95 to $15,000.00 and the $129.95 bass will be on stage the next night and the $15,000.00 bass will be home locked in a vault cause you're afraid some clown will steal it on the gig. Hey it's only my opinion..............Sometimes I play the bass and sometimes I play the fool.

 

[Bone]

CNC machines have made the fit better but the tuners, elctronics, and hardwere on new cheap guitars are just that, Cheap. The guitars that people are calling junk were cheap but still came stock with Kluson and Waverly tuners, Stackpole and CTS pots, Sprauge Caps, alnico pickups with Formvar wire. Just beacause you didn't know how to set it up to make it play well it's labled junk. The reason there is still so much of it around is because most of it was well built, even after being abused buy geneations of kids tossing them around in the basement or garage until some parent says, Get rid of that old guitar, throw it out or take it to Goodwill.

I buy these cheap junk guitars and gig them seem to play and sound fine at the clubs I play.

Case in point behold my cheap 61 Harmony Stratatone Mars
Cheap junk still going strong 49 years later all original but tuners, changed before I owned it. Arrow straight neck w/pearl dots, plays like butter in tune. You can have your CNCed First Acts, Johnsons, and Squires made in China. I'll play this Junk anyday.

 

[otis_thick]

"Luthier Explosion" of the late '70s with Spector, Alembic, Ken Smith, Fodora and others (I don't really think there was such a thing as a "High-End Bass" until they came along....

The luthier explosion was partly due to fall of QC at the major brands like Fender. Especially the ones that made high end "copys" They took the best of the originals and kept it consistant. They took time to choose better wood, made everything tight and exact fitting made the pickups more consistant. For example the 70's wood quality would vary greatly effecting tone. The tightness of the joints, the pot values etc all varried from run to run.

 

[Bass Viking]

especially in your world of sadowskys and dingwalls-did someone mention overpriced.

By the way, kind of ironic that you slag Dingwall given your username.

 

[BillyRay]

I'm not an old fart, but I started at a pretty young age and even the mid 90's entry-level instrument were nothing but a shadow of some of the stuff you can find now at the same price. I think my first bass was 200$ with a softshell + taxes and the neck warped pretty soon after buying it. The nut was poorly cut and the fret ends were sharp. It was also ugly as sin. I also played a plywood Memphis from who knows when extensively, and altough it sounded good, it was a pain to setup and to keep intonated.

Now, go to the rondomusic store and marvel at the fact that for approximately the same price I payed for my first piece of doodoo, you can get an active six string with a vennered flame top.

It's also not only a matter of "they were made better back then" vs "they are better nowadays". The Internet has changed the rules: people are more informed of new products, techniques, construction and materials now, than they were in '95. There's also a lot more info on how to DIY, wether it is setups, repairs or building a bass from scratch.

It's definately a good time to be a bass player, altough some instruments that are no longer made carry a certain mystique and a palette that is hard to replicate with today's models. The Ric 4005 or the original Steinbergers come to mind as instruments that have no contemporary alternatives.