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Double Bass A question of ethics
- Thread starter flyingmarcel
- Start date
The "Tom Waits Manuever" is your only chance:
Get a six pack of Mickey's Big Mouths and a gallon of gas. Go to the bar (after it's closed), douse the place in gasoline and torch it. Then sit in the car listening to a Top 40 station while you drink your Mickeys.
Just kidding.
Get a six pack of Mickey's Big Mouths and a gallon of gas. Go to the bar (after it's closed), douse the place in gasoline and torch it. Then sit in the car listening to a Top 40 station while you drink your Mickeys.
Just kidding.
On my regular gig, I lay my bass down in front of a waist-high wall, which is a pass-through from the hotel lobby to the bandstand. On one particular night last week, I had brought my Azola EUB, while my realbass awaited a date with the luthier. As I sat and watched from the sidelines, some bozo jumped over this little wall, right into the area where my bass would have been laying. Fortunately, the boozed-up fool missed my stick bass; had the real bass been there, it would have ended very badly. As it was, he stepped on my water glass and shattered it, and then made a very embarrassing landing on the other side, which delighted me.
Basses are like kids; you do what you can to protect them, but you just can't be there all the time. I sometimes pack it up on every break if it's a particularly intrusive crowd. And I'm not afraid to use a well-placed foot to the a$$ if someone's getting too close to my special space.
Basses are like kids; you do what you can to protect them, but you just can't be there all the time. I sometimes pack it up on every break if it's a particularly intrusive crowd. And I'm not afraid to use a well-placed foot to the a$$ if someone's getting too close to my special space.
Hey All,
Wow - was surprised to come in to work today and see all the replys to this post (I was a way yesterday to see Brad Mehldau and the Wayne Shorter Quartet!)
Upon cooling off for a day or so, I think most of you are right that I should probably just let this go, as my bass was not damaged. The thing of it though, is this place is not really a bar - its a restaurant which has Jazz probably 5 nights a week. I would assume that the owner of a jazz club would educate his or her employees on the specifics of the job compared to a standard restaurant or bar job.
Oh, and as far as leaving the bass where I shouldn't have, it was right in front of the stage, parallel to it (not sticking out into his walking space). I am very careful about this - I have nightmares about people kicking my bass! So, I always make sure its as out of the way as possible. Oh well, I guess considering what happened, things could have worked out a lot worse....
fm
Wow - was surprised to come in to work today and see all the replys to this post (I was a way yesterday to see Brad Mehldau and the Wayne Shorter Quartet!)
Upon cooling off for a day or so, I think most of you are right that I should probably just let this go, as my bass was not damaged. The thing of it though, is this place is not really a bar - its a restaurant which has Jazz probably 5 nights a week. I would assume that the owner of a jazz club would educate his or her employees on the specifics of the job compared to a standard restaurant or bar job.
Oh, and as far as leaving the bass where I shouldn't have, it was right in front of the stage, parallel to it (not sticking out into his walking space). I am very careful about this - I have nightmares about people kicking my bass! So, I always make sure its as out of the way as possible. Oh well, I guess considering what happened, things could have worked out a lot worse....
fm
Ed Fuqua said:
Don't know how this response is gonna fly around here. I wear two hats; long-time tour manager and hack bassist. About working in bars: The staff works there too. Every day. It's their workplace more than it is yours. If you're a pro, you know that. If you treat the staff with respect, it'll go a long way toward you getting respect from them. After all, you're "only" a temp.
Part of treating them with respect is you realizing that *they* have a job to do; set-up, prepping the house for "doors open," etc.
You bear responsibility for not making their job harder than it already is. Say, by keeping your gear out of the sea lanes.
I think that's a very interesting take on things - One that definately deserves some thought. Now, my feeling is that I am always more that pleasant to the staff, do my best to stay out of their way, and generally do my best to not be a pain in the ass - They have enough to do to keep demanding customers happy.
All this said, should it not be expected that they understand the nature of the environment in which they work ie. should they operate with blinders on because they are a bartender or waitress doing their job, or should they be expected to pay attention to where they are and what they are near? If you work in a venue which has live music, I don't feel that it matters that each musician isa 'temp' - I think you instead have to think of it as a rotating cast of regulars. Maybe the situation requires a little give and take on each side, rather than a "my house, my rules" sort of attitude on the part of the restaurant staff. Believe me, I've played in enough places and been treated poorly by enough owners, employees, etc to know that's sometimes that's the way it works, but I don't expect this attitude to carry over to my equipment as well -
I wonder how it would go over the next time I go in, if instead of carrying my bass at should height to get it around the tables that are extremely close together, I was to just push them over to get around.....Afterall, they're in MY way!
fm
All this said, should it not be expected that they understand the nature of the environment in which they work ie. should they operate with blinders on because they are a bartender or waitress doing their job, or should they be expected to pay attention to where they are and what they are near? If you work in a venue which has live music, I don't feel that it matters that each musician isa 'temp' - I think you instead have to think of it as a rotating cast of regulars. Maybe the situation requires a little give and take on each side, rather than a "my house, my rules" sort of attitude on the part of the restaurant staff. Believe me, I've played in enough places and been treated poorly by enough owners, employees, etc to know that's sometimes that's the way it works, but I don't expect this attitude to carry over to my equipment as well -
I wonder how it would go over the next time I go in, if instead of carrying my bass at should height to get it around the tables that are extremely close together, I was to just push them over to get around.....Afterall, they're in MY way!
fm
I'm obviously joking (I hope!) at the end of my last post - I would never consider anything of that nature, however, I do feel that the protective nature over the work environment of restaurant/club/bar employees you convey in your previous post is a little troubling - I mean, I understand that perhaps it is a little inconvenient to have to walk around musicians to get your job done, BUT - if you work at a restaurant that prides itself on being a music club (and advertises as such) then you have to understand that musicians will be in your work space - like it, hate it, inconvenienced by it - oh well, I'm sure that there are lots of nice restaurants you could work at that don't carry this burden for you.
Saying it is completely within the bartenders right to kick my bass because its in his work space would be like saying its ok for a cab driver to run over pedestrians that are in his or her workspace (the road) - its rediculous to make this assumption. (almost as rediculous as me drawing this parellel, but it gets the point across)
As I have said, I hold no resentment towards the cat after thinking it over a little, but I think he still was in the wrong and owed me a proper appology as such. The fact that I didn't get one is neither here or there, but I don't think I have to "get over it" because he has to work there every day and I'm only there sometimes
Saying it is completely within the bartenders right to kick my bass because its in his work space would be like saying its ok for a cab driver to run over pedestrians that are in his or her workspace (the road) - its rediculous to make this assumption. (almost as rediculous as me drawing this parellel, but it gets the point across)
As I have said, I hold no resentment towards the cat after thinking it over a little, but I think he still was in the wrong and owed me a proper appology as such. The fact that I didn't get one is neither here or there, but I don't think I have to "get over it" because he has to work there every day and I'm only there sometimes
From how you sound in your posts, I think if you were carrying your bass in and knocked over several trays of water glasses, you would probably go out of your way to apologize profusely, at least. I doubt if you would just shrug your shoulders and walk on. So what's the bartenders problem? too busy to be a mearly decent human being??
Yeah, Ive worked in plenty of restaraunts myself. It can be a hectic place, but everyone is an employee, whether it be full-time or not. If I caught a waiter deliberately messing with the band, he'd be gone before he could take of his apron.
gomez
Yeah, Ive worked in plenty of restaraunts myself. It can be a hectic place, but everyone is an employee, whether it be full-time or not. If I caught a waiter deliberately messing with the band, he'd be gone before he could take of his apron.
gomez
Hey,
Thanks for posting - you're completely right. If I was the one that had messed up there stuff (water, table, plates, whatever) not only would I have appologized to the ends of the earth, I would have helped them clean it up.
I think you're right - Just because you work somewhere, doesn't put you above social law - its nice to be important, BUT its important to be nice!
So, maybe having musicians in his restaurant is an inconvenience for this cat - thats probably why they give him a pay cheque - no job is perfect, but I think his is pretty good!
fm
Thanks for posting - you're completely right. If I was the one that had messed up there stuff (water, table, plates, whatever) not only would I have appologized to the ends of the earth, I would have helped them clean it up.
I think you're right - Just because you work somewhere, doesn't put you above social law - its nice to be important, BUT its important to be nice!
So, maybe having musicians in his restaurant is an inconvenience for this cat - thats probably why they give him a pay cheque - no job is perfect, but I think his is pretty good!
fm
Sometimes, it's not the fault of any one person but rather the fault of the environment. Sounds like this jazz restaurant is a cramped place where it's tough to move around very much. So you're dealing with the difficulty of where to put your bass, and the employee is trying to move quickly in a tight spot. Accidents will happen under those circumstances. There have been a couple gigs when I simply refused to take my nice bass, fearing some misfortune would befall it. The worst was this concert series at my high school, where they put an entire big band on a moving wooden cart. Even the plywood bass I used from the school got banged up to oblivion. I can't blame the people who bumped into it, since the circumstances were so ridiculous.
Sometimes, choosing your battles wisely might mean bringing a cheap instrument to a gig, or not going at all.
Sometimes, choosing your battles wisely might mean bringing a cheap instrument to a gig, or not going at all.
Didn't they used to make aluminum basses? There's a solution that shouldn't be ruled out. If it gets kicked it could be repaired with a hammer or some bondo.
What to do? I'd say it depends on whether the club management are decent, sensitive folk, or whether the place is owned by "Uncle Lou" and "Crazy Nicky" up in South Philly or Jamaica Queens....you might get an apology or you might get your fingers broken....but it just goes to show you that no matter what genre of music you play, in clubs you are often treated worse than "the help," and your employment is likely more tenuous than that bartender's.
OK...Take this as a learning experience in two ways..
1. ALWAYS!!!! keep your bass in it's case at ALL times!! untill the moment you need to play it.....Then when done, it goes back in the case..NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!! Don't ever put your bass out for display on a guitar stand.....You watch it like your an MP at a military post ..if you need to use the head then your bandmate MUST stand guard till you return!!!
2. You still have issues that bother you concerning the bartender... From now on deal with these things when they happen and don't let it go, because it will just eat at you if you don't deal with it at the time... You can still deal with it, but with the right amount of finace, you don't want to come off overly aggressive, (thats called BRONX attitude )..instead do it a bit jokingly to see where the bar tender takes it..You kind of say with a smirk "Hey Bob, you gotta stop drinking on the job, you ran into my bass the other day..that thing is like $5K"....You gotta give him some squiggle room without putting him in the corner...If he still doesn't respond, then he's a shmuck and he goes on your sh!t-list and you just move on, but atleast you let him know your concern in a friendly way by saying "Thats gonna take a lot of Margaretas ..." and just walk away...
Writting a letter would only create more problems...The owner would probably crumple it and toss it after reading the first sentence and just as well forget it a second later...
Good Luck and watch your back at all times when your out playing..your on your own!!!
Chris
1. ALWAYS!!!! keep your bass in it's case at ALL times!! untill the moment you need to play it.....Then when done, it goes back in the case..NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!! Don't ever put your bass out for display on a guitar stand.....You watch it like your an MP at a military post ..if you need to use the head then your bandmate MUST stand guard till you return!!!
2. You still have issues that bother you concerning the bartender... From now on deal with these things when they happen and don't let it go, because it will just eat at you if you don't deal with it at the time... You can still deal with it, but with the right amount of finace, you don't want to come off overly aggressive, (thats called BRONX attitude )..instead do it a bit jokingly to see where the bar tender takes it..You kind of say with a smirk "Hey Bob, you gotta stop drinking on the job, you ran into my bass the other day..that thing is like $5K"....You gotta give him some squiggle room without putting him in the corner...If he still doesn't respond, then he's a shmuck and he goes on your sh!t-list and you just move on, but atleast you let him know your concern in a friendly way by saying "Thats gonna take a lot of Margaretas ..." and just walk away...
Writting a letter would only create more problems...The owner would probably crumple it and toss it after reading the first sentence and just as well forget it a second later...
Good Luck and watch your back at all times when your out playing..your on your own!!!
Chris
I would go up to the bartender and just tell him how you feel. Tell him that you feel weird about the whole situation and just be totally honest. I feel that that always brings people closer and helps everyone be more of a genuine human being. He will then hopefully, be more mindfull of the situation in the future and have more respect for you.
