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A recommendation

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by SWiTCH, Oct 13, 2005.


  1. SWiTCH

    SWiTCH

    Jul 20, 2004
    I've been playing guitar for about 10 years and bass for about 6 months. Now I'm about to start gigging with my first band, and I'm playing bass. Strange.
    The thing is, I need a bass amp and I know nothing about them. I've done some research but I don't know where to start, so I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.

    I play punk rock with a pick. I play with a ton of treble to get a really crisp twangy sound, so you can always hear it clicking away behind the guitar. I think examples would be Rise Against, NOFX, and Propagandhi.

    My price range is <1,000 for the rig.
    If anyone could make a suggestion I would appreciate it. :bassist:
     
  2. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    well, I'll shake your hand for joining the Bteam.

    well, first we usually ask alot of questions to get a good Idea of where you're coming from. $1,000 USD is an o.k. place to start, but I'll ask some other questions, make a knee-jerk suggestion based on my own trials and tribs about gear. first the questions??

    Is this a basement or bar band?

    How loud do you think the band is?

    Do you have P.A. support.

    Do you have a good back and not afraid to carry 70+ LBS regularly?

    do you know if you want a combo or separate speakers and rack gear??

    Some personal guidlines I'd suggest:

    if you buy a combo (pre,amp and speakers in one box) I'd suggest getting at LEAST 100w with a 12" or 15". MAKE SURE the combo can also have an EXTERNAL cabinet attached to it WITHOUT shutting off the internal speaker. this is helpful in louder situations where you need more volume.

    I'd recommend this combo for starters Yorkville xm200

    [​IMG]

    if you go this route you can buy and extention 12" or 15" or 210 for more volume.

    If you want to go separates (usually for more power and/or saving your back with smaller chunks of the gear) I'd suggest
    getting AT LEAST 400w amp to plug into 4ohm load/cabinet(s) (two 8 ohm cabs will equal a 4ohm load)

    You can buy an amp HEAD (PRE AND power section in one box) or you can buy separate pre, power and cabs. as you buy more separates it sometimes can get more expensive.

    Heads I'd recommend would be yorkville xs400h, eden WT-400 or aguilar AG500. to maximize your dollars, buy used if you are comfortable. if you can buy used from a local store so you can try out the stuff and make sure it sounds good to you and is working good.

    If you buy a preamp and power amp separate check out Tech21 RBI or RPM (about $300 new) stewart world 1.2 2.1 amp or maybe a QSC or Crown brands.

    If you buy either head or separates you might want a rack to protect your investment. I'd recommend SKB racks the "ROTO" series is a little beefy, but affordable, I think, about $75 for a 4 space deep rack (big enough for a RBI, Stewart 1.2 with two spaces left for vent or tuner or other accessories.

    Cabs are probably the harded to choose because the sound and performace can be so subjective. try whatever you find at the store used. try sticking to 410, 112, 115 cabs. if you have one or two small (10" or 8") speakers in each box you might end up maxing out their volume potential and limiting your bass potential.
    you'll want a cab rated for at LEAST 300w and with and 8ohm impedence rating. why? most amps or heads don't like to run below 4ohms (remember two 8 ohms speakers = 4ohm load. THE EDEN AMP RUNS DOWN TO TWO OHMS!!! if you want to buy new some people swear by AVATAR cabs, but DO YOUR RESEARCH on which speakers you should put in the box.

    WAIT!!! WEIGHT!!! cabs and poweramps will be your biggest potential weight problem. older amps (non-switching or non class D or H) can weight alot for 400+w into 4ohms (about 5-10LBS for each 100w)
    Cabs with big drivers (15" or 18") can weigh alot usually 50-70 LBS. other cabs with multiple speakers can weigh even more. 810s can weigh upwards of 120LBS some 410s weigh around 70-90 LBS.

    Consider spending some of your money on a heavy duty luggage cart or two wheel handtruck. $50-150 it will save on your back and help you keep your friends after the gig.

    My current set up is made of the suggestions above. RBI, STEWART 1.2 (1000w into 4ohms) and two aguilar gs112's thats about 115 LBS and its plenty loud for me, but I don't play bars or outside, but I think it could be quite potent. I have a $140 luggage cart that helps me haul it to my car when I DO have to move it. I spent about $1800 new for that stuff, you might find the same for about $1050 used

    Hope this helps. I enjoy helping out the new guy if I can... :hyper:
     
  3. SWiTCH

    SWiTCH

    Jul 20, 2004
    Wow! You are a saint.

    - We'll be playing basements and bars.
    - We have P.A. for the vocals only.
    - I don't mind some heavy lifting.
    - I'm not sure if I want a combo or seperate.

    Thanks a LOT for all this information. I'll definitely look into all the things you mentioned. :hyper:
     
  4. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    if you have PA for vocals ONLY that mean YOU have to put your bass into the WHOLE ROOM! I play in a room about 30 feet by 60feet with a false ceiling. I'd recommend separates so you can have a couple of big cabs like 410 and 115 or 118. in the room I mentioned we have a 115 with a 208 (2 8") and when you get about 20feet away the deep bass drops off fairly fast. your mids, with adequite power, will be heard most places in the room, but the deep lows depend on having several 15"s or 410's.

    I don't have experience in any other large room or using 410s in this room, but others could give you info. I know the 1200w 2x12 setup I use would be lost in my room without PA support and we're not even playing anyway near bar levels, its kids church, loud, but kids church. our PA system is 2x18, 2x15 with a couple of 8" speakers and horns thrown in for good measure.

    What am I saying?? I "think" a 400w into 4ohms and a couple of twelves will be great for just you and the band if their less than 10 feet from you. if you want to include some of the crowd you should probably use 600-1000w and a 410 with a 115 or 118 and most of the crowd will be happier too.

    The irony of it all is that you may never find an arrangement that will please everyone you, band, crowd, your back, your wallet

    so maybe for now find a nice head and 410 and see how that goes.
     
  5. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    Will that Yorkville do 2000 watts on a two ohm load????? :eek:

    -Mike
     
  6. Mcrelly

    Mcrelly

    Jun 16, 2003
    Minnesota, USA
    I don't think so, but I'm assuming the internal speaker is 8ohms and another 8ohm extension would = 4 ohms. here is what the manual says "Extension Speaker Output (back Panel)
    One or two extension speakers can be connected via the Extension Speaker Output jack on the back panel. The minimum impedance of the external speaker load is 4-ohms (one 4-ohm extension speaker or two 8-ohm extension speakers). The Extension Speaker jack is wired parallel with the internal speaker so that the internal speaker (also 4- ohms) will continue to operate when an extension
    cabinet is used.

    Tip: The power amplifier is electronically, and thermally, protected against unsafe loads and will shut down (rather than sustain damage) when the speaker load is too low. If a shutdown occurs, disconnect the extension speaker and switch the power off. The xm200 will be capable of powering back up in a few minutes after it cools down."

    so, I guess your answer is YES .
     
  7. I find that my Avatar b212 throws more bass when you back up to 20 ft. away from it. It is a very good single cab solution and can get plenty loud. It also has a tweeter for that click that you're looking for.

    BTW my Avatar B115 overpowers my other cabs from 20+ feet away. I find that the bigger the room the MORE bass it can throw. I never recommend it for a single cab solution though but that's my opinion. Yours may vary.