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About the tonewood argument...

#41
Does a dead note sound out through the pickups? If the answer is "yes", then the wood has an unarguable effect on what is eventually transmitted through a loudspeaker. It does not get any more plain and simple than that. It can be further elaborated with the question: Why do two of the same basses, of the exact same construction and same electronics sound slightly different from one another? Of course, so much is subjective but one can't ignore that which is plainly clear to see, or hear in this case. It's just so matter of fact obvious to me, like breathing air, that it stands against all reason to think otherwise..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................IMO
 
#45
oniman7 said:
I don't have a firm belief on either side, but I just had a thought. Most basses only pickup the vibrations of the string, which shoulld theoretically only be affected at the contact points: tuners, nut, fingerboard, bridge.

A standard pickup wouldn't pick up the different way the wood itself vibrates. It would have to vibrate and somehow significantly affect one of the contact points, most likely the bridge, and even then I can't imagine a significant difference. I would think changing the bridge would do more. Am I right?

Now Piezo pickups are anyone's game...
Click to expand...

The way the wood vibrates reinforces or diminishes different frequencies in the vibrations of the strings. It's not that complicated.

Also, I have two guitars whose only substantive difference is that they're made of two very different materials. One is made of a porous, light wood, the other is made of a dense, heavy wood. The first one has a much darker tone than the second, which is twangier. They have the same pickups, electronics, etc.
 
#46
The folks that do believe wood makes a difference do agree that it's one of the factors in tone.

I can't actually fathom why folks deny the effect unless they are missing the aural experience others are having. To you I say, you can't see Jupiter from here with a microscope, but it's still there. Additionally some folks own a telescope.

Take some time and see if you can explain why as posted earlier, a Les Paul, an SG and an ES335 all sound different. I trust you will be honest with yourself and others.
 
#47
Sartori said:
The way the wood vibrates reinforces or diminishes different frequencies in the vibrations of the strings. It's not that complicated.

Also, I have two guitars whose only substantive difference is that they're made of two very different materials. One is made of a porous, light wood, the other is made of a dense, heavy wood. The first one has a much darker tone than the second, which is twangier. They have the same pickups, electronics, etc.
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Well said. I have two Sadowsky NYC Modern 5-24s, both with identical pickups, electronics, hardware and ebony fretboards. One has a mahogany body with koa top, and the other is alder. Their natural tones are related, but significantly different. The alder bass has a warmer, slightly muted tone, while the mahogany bass is aggressively mid-rich and throaty.
 
#51
I'd say wood has an effect, but not the way some think. In a magnetic pickup solid body bass, the wood does in fact vibrate and adds to the acoustic tone. The pickup doesn't notice that directly though. Since the wood is vibrating, that means it is absorbing the string's vibration and thus damping it. The pickup indirectly notices the wood's effect through the strings. So I'd say wood choice is more like a cut-only EQ. Some woods damp some frequencies more or less. I wouldn't say the wood adds anything though, only subtracts.

That's not to say wood affects tone in a bad way, it just doesn't emphasize things. People may say a certain wood emphasizes the mids; what it really does is de-emphasize everything else. Remember, cutting one frequency band sounds almost the same as boosting the others.

It all comes down to the strings and how everything else works with them. They are where the vibrations start. Everything connected to them affects their vibrations in some way. It's just a matter of how much.
 
#52
VincentSalizeri said:
I'd say wood has an effect, but not the way some think. In a magnetic pickup solid body bass, the wood does in fact vibrate and adds to the acoustic tone. The pickup doesn't notice that directly though. Since the wood is vibrating, that means it is absorbing the string's vibration and thus damping it. The pickup indirectly notices the wood's effect through the strings. So I'd say wood choice is more like a cut-only EQ. Some woods damp some frequencies more or less. I wouldn't say the wood adds anything though, only subtracts.

That's not to say wood affects tone in a bad way, it just doesn't emphasize things. People may say a certain wood emphasizes the mids; what it really does is de-emphasize everything else. Remember, cutting one frequency band sounds almost the same as boosting the others.

It all comes down to the strings and how everything else works with them. They are where the vibrations start. Everything connected to them affects their vibrations in some way. It's just a matter of how much.
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Well said!
 
#53
Through the builder's choice of woods he can make a bass that emphasizes certain resonances thus giving particular overall responses. It is a lot like fine cooking.

Tobias talks about how he holds a piece of wood and raps on it to discern its distinct vibrational properties. If customer is after a certain sound he can tailor the bass to that. I had a builder tell me that some buyer's wood choices while pleasing to them in appearrance or uniqueness can sometimes yield a less than ideal sounding instrument.

Tobias talked about staying away from too many laminations as glue has no particularly good sonic properties.:)
 
#54
bootsox said:
so does the size and shape of the body

What I meant though is that it doesn't have anything to do with whether you've got an open or closed grain wood or anything silly like that
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I may misunderstand your point. So respectfully, mahogany is different from alder is different than ebony or maple. Ebony is hard and not oily while mahogany is softer and more naturally oily. Vibrations travel differently through them. The oily woods wood demphasize the highs while allowing the lower tones to propagate. When you rap it with your knuckle one will sound low or dull and the other bright with clear highs. If you are "Bass Chef" :) you may add a lamination of maple to give snap on top of some fat lower mids. You pick up the finished bass and think you've gone to heaven. Or it's not your thing.
 
#55
We built these two basses (sided by side) at exactly the same time. PUP's, PUP spacing and electronics are all identical. They sound as different as can be. I'd be happy to carry them into the shop (in Brooklyn) for anyone wanting to hear them for themselves...

http://www.fodera.com/Main/NewBornDetails.aspx?FeaturedItemID=291

http://www.fodera.com/Main/NewBornDetails.aspx?FeaturedItemID=292

We believe that the wood choices that we make play a very significant role in the overall tone of our instruments. We spend a lot of time selecting woods for each instrument...I'd hate to think that all that time was wasted! LOL.

In our experience, EVERYTHING matters...wood, parts, electronics, PUP placement, strings, mass...all of it.
 
#56
I have 2 Fender AV Jazz Basses, one is a 94 and the other an 87. Both Alder and all stock P-ups and electronics. The older (25 years old) one has a fair amount of finish checking, both necks feel about the same and they weigh about the same. They both sound like Jazz basses but they are slightly different sounding, the older of the two has more bottom and a very nice slightly brighter top end to it. I agree with the statement, everything matters or has some effect on the tone of an enstrument.
 
#57
Solarmist said:
Through your computer speakers? :rollno:

Whaaat :confused:

I believe I said that, and of coarse wood matters on an acoustic hollow body; orchestral stringed instuments are a prime example.

+1 :D

Really guys; if you buy a solidbody bass for its wood type - do it for its aesthetic value. If you want to change your sound; changing your strings will make the biggest difference. You guys may be right to an extent, but the differences (based on wood type) in what you hear out your amp would be negligible at best. Lets remember how an electric bass works. ;)
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Yep through lap top speakers even. You must have missed the bass labs site . Check out the bass labs USA site. More info for you there.
 
#58
Amen! Well-said!

Just Thumpin' said:
We built these two basses (sided by side) at exactly the same time. PUP's, PUP spacing and electronics are all identical. They sound as different as can be. I'd be happy to carry them into the shop (in Brooklyn) for anyone wanting to hear them for themselves...

http://www.fodera.com/Main/NewBornDetails.aspx?FeaturedItemID=291

http://www.fodera.com/Main/NewBornDetails.aspx?FeaturedItemID=292

We believe that the wood choices that we make play a very significant role in the overall tone of our instruments. We spend a lot of time selecting woods for each instrument...I'd hate to think that all that time was wasted! LOL.

In our experience, EVERYTHING matters...wood, parts, electronics, PUP placement, strings, mass...all of it.
Click to expand...
 
#60
Just Thumpin' said:
We built these two basses (sided by side) at exactly the same time. PUP's, PUP spacing and electronics are all identical. They sound as different as can be. I'd be happy to carry them into the shop (in Brooklyn) for anyone wanting to hear them for themselves...

http://www.fodera.com/Main/NewBornDetails.aspx?FeaturedItemID=291

http://www.fodera.com/Main/NewBornDetails.aspx?FeaturedItemID=292

We believe that the wood choices that we make play a very significant role in the overall tone of our instruments. We spend a lot of time selecting woods for each instrument...I'd hate to think that all that time was wasted! LOL.

In our experience, EVERYTHING matters...wood, parts, electronics, PUP placement, strings, mass...all of it.
Click to expand...

Please don't inject this type of fact into this argument. Clearly, the point of view of experts means nothing here, this argument has enough experts already...
 

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