You can just go ahead and send those 2 basses to San Antonio and I'll be the judge of that
</drool>
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About the tonewood argument...
- Thread starter oniman7
- Start date
You can just go ahead and send those 2 basses to San Antonio and I'll be the judge of that
</drool>I actually wish I had this problem. It must be nice to pick up a a few basses, with the same pickups/hardware/strings/etc., and not be able to hear a difference from one to the next. I suppose I could save a lot of money that way. Heck, I could go to Home Depot and buy a bunch of plywood, get a Jazz Bass template and build my own bass.
The fact is though that I can hear a difference. Small nuances like sustain, warmth, certain high/lows, and this is before the bass is even plugged in. Of course wood is not the only reason a particular bass will sound good. Electronics, hardware, and of course amps/speakers play a huge role in amplifying the natural tone of the bass.
Premierbass said:
People aren't taking all factors into account.
It is impossible to have two basses exactly the same. Minor variations could be anything. The condition of the strings. The placement of the cables soldered to the tone pots. How deep the screws are set. Even the minor warping fromm being in different temperature conditions.
What we'd need would be to test all of these variables independently, and get consistent empirical results.
If i pick up two Stingrays, even of the same wood, they will sound mildly different. I have done this. Because of the butterfly effect, I say it's impossible to get two basses to sound exactly the same -- but you can get close enough for the human ear.
I will say that it makes sense to me for the fretboard wood to change the tone, and that a higher or lower mass body will change tone and maybe even sustain. But I don't think there's a "purpleheart tone" or a "swamp ash tone" like there's a jazz, precision and MM tone
I didn't start this thread necessarily to say that I think they do or don't affect the tone, it was more of a thought I had.
So here's something I'm legitimately curious about.
The only things directly affecting the vibration of the string are the fret or fretboard and the bridge. In the case of open strings, the nut and possibly tuning pegs are also involved.
For the vibration of the wood itself to affect the tone, first the string would have to vibrate, travelling down through the bridge, into the body, causing the body to vibrate, vibrating the bridge, and then affecting the string.
However, I would think that that would take a little bit of time to happen, so it would have to be phased in some way, wouldn't it? Is that too small a gap for the human ear?
Also, while this is happening, vibrations are still coming from the string. Because there is less energy lost of these vibrations, wouldn't it cancel out the weaker vibrations that are resulting from the body vibration?
I do see how a heavier body would resonate differently from a lighter one. I'm not sure why, but I have the feeling that heavier, denser bodies allow higher frequencies to ring, while lighter bodies would have more bass.
Also, how much different does an all graphite body sound? I think the wood is just a vehicle for the sound transfer.
And again, it seems to me that the people who say "Bass A sounds different than Bass B, and they have different woods, so wood must be the deciding factor" are using an over-simplified syllogism and that you must account for the Butterfly Effect, for lack of simpler terms. There will always be minor differences. The challenge is finding the consistency in what changes what.
Edit: The things I stated as fact (such as "the only things directly affecting the string...") are assumed as such and that's part of my confusion.
So here's something I'm legitimately curious about.
The only things directly affecting the vibration of the string are the fret or fretboard and the bridge. In the case of open strings, the nut and possibly tuning pegs are also involved.
For the vibration of the wood itself to affect the tone, first the string would have to vibrate, travelling down through the bridge, into the body, causing the body to vibrate, vibrating the bridge, and then affecting the string.
However, I would think that that would take a little bit of time to happen, so it would have to be phased in some way, wouldn't it? Is that too small a gap for the human ear?
Also, while this is happening, vibrations are still coming from the string. Because there is less energy lost of these vibrations, wouldn't it cancel out the weaker vibrations that are resulting from the body vibration?
I do see how a heavier body would resonate differently from a lighter one. I'm not sure why, but I have the feeling that heavier, denser bodies allow higher frequencies to ring, while lighter bodies would have more bass.
Also, how much different does an all graphite body sound? I think the wood is just a vehicle for the sound transfer.
And again, it seems to me that the people who say "Bass A sounds different than Bass B, and they have different woods, so wood must be the deciding factor" are using an over-simplified syllogism and that you must account for the Butterfly Effect, for lack of simpler terms. There will always be minor differences. The challenge is finding the consistency in what changes what.
Edit: The things I stated as fact (such as "the only things directly affecting the string...") are assumed as such and that's part of my confusion.
Here's a little test you can do if you think wood has nothing to do with the sound..
Next time you take the strings off your bass (or guitar), plug it in, tap the body..
Bet you'll hear it through the amp.. (admittedly some pickups won't, but most I've tried have).
Next time you take the strings off your bass (or guitar), plug it in, tap the body..
Bet you'll hear it through the amp.. (admittedly some pickups won't, but most I've tried have).
There's the thing of acoustic cancellation. 1,000 people clapping is not 1,000 times as loud as 1 person clapping because some of the sound waves will cancel out.
I'm inclined to believe the same thing about the vibrations of the bass.
Also, I'm not calling into question the effects if using piezo pickups. That makes a lot more sense to me.
Of course there are a lot of things that make differences between basses. But something I've noticed and it's something I think few here will argue is that each of my basses with great tone have this certain "resonance" when you play them unplugged. You can feel the solid vibrations in your hands as you pluck the strings. You aren't even listening to the speakers, pickups, strings or the rest. And in my experience when you find one of those basses with solid resonance in the entire instrument, when you get around playing it plugged in it invariably sounds great!
Now this is not quite the same thing as the "tonewood" argument. For example my Squier P-5 is Agathis (a kind of pine) and it has that solid unplugged resonance and it sounds great. But in my experience many Squires do not have that nice resonance and unplugged tend to sound and feel thin and clanky. Those generally do not sound as good.
I think I'm saying that it's not just a choice of "tonewood" but also that no matter what the wood (like say a bongo out of basswood) the great instrument will be that way because it works as a single resonant tone-shaping device for the strings. And there is much more involved with that than merely the species of tree that the wood came from.
I can't believe no-one's mentioned the importance of the pickguard. If you can't tell the difference between mint and tort in a blind test then I pity you.
Coming from the bandstand or from a recording, it isn't gonna matter much anyways...I think that I'm just gonna go play my bass and not be worried about the variables in nature, science, construction, and the rotation of the earth.
