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About to get the boot. Got 4 months to improve. What would you do?

+1 to asking them specifically what they want you to work on. No sense wasting effort becoming an amazing slap player or something if they hate slap. If they DO want you to slap, no point wasting your time doing other things...

If this is technical stuff, I'd especially recommend this book - Bass Fitness - An Exercising Handbook (Guitar School): Josquin des Pres: 9780793502486: Amazon.com: Books - lots of exercises for speed and accuracy. Also, I'd work on scales. Maybe Scott's Bass Lessons too? Of course, also a human teacher is good, like you were saying.

I thought about your question for a bit, and... I have to say to take their criticism with a grain of salt because they may not know what they're talking about. They are clear that your playing isn't what they're looking for, but much of the time, they, themselves don't know why exact that you're not playing like the recordings they listen to. After all, they're not bassists, are they?
There's lots of things to do to improve, but, actually, unless you're a really quick study, I don't think 4 months is much time. 3 years is enough time to go from inadequate to knock their socks off; 4 months, probably not. Still, if you want to give it your best shot, and you were my student, I'd say, listen to the recordings your bandmates are listening too and play along, note for note, including dynamics, articulation, etc. A good teacher can help you hear and become aware of the things the bassists on the recordings are doing that you're not. Good luck to you, hope that helps.
 
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I've been playing my whole life. But only got serious a few years ago. The first thing I did, because it's difficult to identify your own shortcomings, is to join Scott's Bass Lessons. I don't mean just snag the free videos, but actually join. Scott, Geoff, and the other members help you identify what you need to work on and will actually critique your work. It's an amazing forum. My playing improved exponentially.

Also, if you haven't already done so, ask your mates for specifics on what they feel you're lacking. Since that is the group you want to play with, find out what sort of skills they are looking for.

Best of luck.
 
Hats off to your buddy for being there and bringing it up, make sure he knows how much you care about the band and its music. Scales, scales scales. Learn them then start experimenting with passing notes and fill notes. What sounds cool to your ear sounds cool. Talkbass is the best place to get advise... read all the replies carefully, take it to heart and get it done. Cant wait to hear how it goes Bro. Good luck man, you can do it. Oh, and don't be shy about rippin off licks and progressions.
 
This website is really funny to me...I like the idea--learn how to play songs from the artists who wrote them--but based on the front page, it's just a bunch of stoners showing you how to play their sloppy doom riffs. Why would you pay 9.99 once to learn the minor pentatonc scale, let alone a recurring fee? (I'm a lifelong stoner-doom fan, no hate on the genre).

Are there any REAL lessons on that site or just a bunch of hammer ons and flat fifths?
I believe it's a combination of both. Personally I went the guitar pro route but it's difficult to find tabs for a lot of stoner/doom stuff past the big acts so joining that site for a month to get a grounding might be beneficial to the OP and $10 isn't a lot of money. I believe they do have actual lessons as well I recall seeing a youtube promo with Brant Bjork I think giving some lessons. That being said seeing what other people in the genre do as far as note choices might help OP get better at composing. Personally I like guitar pro I learned a bunch of Isis, Mastodon, QotSA, Baroness, Deftones, and Tool riffs and was good to go.
 
I don't know that you have your facts straight. Tull version 1 was not a bunch of school mates. Anderson replaced members until it was (excluding barre), Including getting the bass player trained from scratch. (he played bass for a pre-defined period and then dropped it - never a musician at heart). The band that he replaced with school mates was very very good but the direction that Anderson was going in did not suit them.

But that's what I meant. The "Musician at heart". He wanted to have school mates, because they could get along, and the actual musicianship got the second priority. He even took Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond and taught him from scratch. That slowed down rehearsals, but they kept going no matter what. Ian FORCED his old school mates into something that they wasn't into. The early John Evan Band consisted of all future members of Tull, in spite of him startin out with a different bunch. They changed a great deal from being an almost run-of-the-mill british blues combo to something entirely different and definitely unique blend of folk/prog. Subsequent intreviews with both Hammond-Hammond, John Evan, and Barrie Barlow reveals that their later complicated stufff like Thick As A Brick/Passion Play and the folky Songs From The Wood wasn't REALLY their passion, even if they could hack it away. When hearing back to those albums these days, I sure can hear them all struggling with the difficult parts. But by then, they had monstrous success and the band members just joined in in the debauchery. You don't leave a band when it's that succesful. If they had music as their first love, they would've carried on afterwards they got sacked in time for the album A 1980. No one of them succeded at all at their attempts. Not even to keep that at much lower profile than Tull had.

FWIW I happen to think that that "school mate period", wasn't very good at all. You can hear the straining and struggle. Especially in the rhythm section. You can hear the angular and gawky playing. Like, their was just lucky nailing the recording on the 55th take. If they made a 56th one they would f*ck it up again. I don't know if that was the case, but it sure sounds like that. They're trying to "beat knot on itself" even if it was a simple tune. They actually succeded in pulling it off. But ... just! almost!

Is it your first love or not?
Does fame eludes you? Start to play punk just because it's in vogue at the moment? Even if you loathe it and you're over qualified for that? I e for the money and fame only?
Getting laid? (the last one is elusive since you're a bass player..) ;)

- - - -

Even if you play bass, you're more inclined to be suitable in a number of different musical styles than, say, a guitarist. If you're guitarist, you're more prone to nail a certain style say "Heavy Metal" or "Blues" or "Jazz" or "Country" and be more niched. As a bass player you're more inclined towards being that jack-of-all-trades, and you're more likely to be equally as good at holding the bottom for each one of the music styles mentioned above. The only style that perhaps is requiring specialist skills are some kind of funk, that requires lot of slapping/pop/thumbing. But that's all. The most easy example to this is the blues, which "everybody can play" because it's simple. But beyond the notes and technical bit, is it what you really feel? Is it just hacking away anyway? Is the "blues" something for you that goes beyond that technical skill, which is really basic and banal anyway. Now, replace the word blues with stoner or the style of your choice. For example, I can play jazz on bass, and swing, but I would never be that good and seek out a position in a jazz band. I know that, eventually, I would just hack away, and that swinging walking bass line would turn out gawky, angular, no matter how much I woodshedded it, trying to make it sound less than 110 percent of my ability. It's not in my DNA. When people in the band would hear it, they would detect the PRETEND at the drop of a hat.

To still make comparisons with Tull, Martin Barre, their guitar player, has confessed in interviews that all that jazz, prog and sometimes even classical/folk they get into, really is a pretend, but when he plays blues/hard rock he's not pretending. That's probably why he remained with the band for so long.

- - - -

That said. If you find the "pretend" in your playing, skip it. That's what point I was trying to make, and it will just turn out a drag for you and a major boring chore, if you try to woodshed and practice on music that's not really up your alley. Even trying to play funk/pop/slap when you know that you're going to play stoner/doom riffs. Because if you really find that niche within your playing, you could stand and cope with all the woodshedding, and ride the storm out. You will plunge deep into practice with joy instead of a slight disdain for it deep down. The other way around, it's like learning a language that you won't ever have the need for. And deep down you know it. But as it is, there are some basic fingering, scales and timing practices that just everybody has to go through and learn by heart, so it's second nature. But that's at the very beginner level.
 
One important thing, that I think Doug Parkinson said in a few posts back (and a few others as well) was - if not the most important thing - that you have to succumb to and accept making mistakes while in the band and rehearsal. If you're too subdued and embarrased for making a fool of yourself, it will inhibit your progress. I e trying to play some fills in the empty spaces and those come out a train wreck, just keep carrying on. The more creative moments of music is born out of big mistakes. If you make a mistake, TRY TO REPEAT it. Then people think it should be that way! :smug:

I e if you're afraid of being scolded by your band mates, audience, peers or punters, it's going to inhibit your progress big time. Don't take any bs. Disciplined practice regimen should ALWAYS be mixed up with out-of-control excitement and erratic noodling. Forget what you've just learned and just going up and down the neck like a little kid enjoying themselves for the sake of it. Take pauses, and large breaks, i e 2-3 days totally breaks, will do wonder for your muscles. you don't want to get tendinitis and carpal tunnel syndrome for practicing like hell.

- - - - -

I would add a 6th "amendment" to the former 5 questions I put out. That you just know yourself how to answer:

6. Whenever you try to play something, no matter how simple, and you happen to miss something, or play it wrong, do you detect this for yourself or do you have to have someone else having you to tell you that you're off? In timing especially.

This is crucial. I think half of it is won, if you detect this by yourself without having someone else having to point it out first. You may not know exactly yet, what was wrong, but you detected IMMEDIATELY that something wasn't right. But can't put finger on it. This is something basic, initial thing which you really can't practice on. If you have absolutely no gut feeling for when something went wrong you have a much longer way, and hill to climb. I think 4 months will be a little too short a deadline then.

You can't believe the amount of players I've encountered who just goes on and on, and without them ever detecting that they're off. They loose where ONE is. I know of at least 2-3 drummers who are seemingly very flashy and proficient, and really can hold a straight beat, but you know what? They can't join in any tune, if they don't have a count in first! Even the simplest blues ones. If they happen to drop a drumstick in the middle of a song, they wont ever be able to come back if they don't get served the "1-2-3-4" by someone else playing. They can't detect it from just listening to the others. And they just foolishly jamming away, with no concern at all for their own safety, and anyone else.
 
I thought about your question for a bit, and... I have to say to take their criticism with a grain of salt because they may not know what they're talking about. They are clear that your playing isn't what they're looking for, but much of the time, they, themselves don't know why exact that you're not playing like the recordings they listen to. After all, they're not bassists, are they?
There's lots of things to do to improve, but, actually, unless you're a really quick study, I don't think 4 months is much time. 3 years is enough time to go from inadequate to knock their socks off; 4 months, probably not. Still, if you want to give it your best shot, and you were my student, I'd say, listen to the recordings your bandmates are listening too and play along, note for note, including dynamics, articulation, etc. A good teacher can help you hear and become aware of the things the bassists on the recordings are doing that you're not. Good luck to you, hope that helps.

You're right, Tom, they may not. But they may. Even if they can't tell the OP exactly what to do, they can still give a sense of what's lacking that he can translate into what to work on. "We want you to play faster," "Don't just play the root all the time, do something interesting," "We want someone who sounds like X bassist." If the OP doesn't slap and they're imagining tunes where he's slapping like Flea, then that tells him he needs to work on slap even if they don't know what it's called.

How far the OP can get in four months depends on his starting point. If he's a total beginner, he won't be Geddy Lee in four months. He said that he had pretty much stopped practicing; maybe all that's needed is for him to resume. My guess is that he was good enough for the band when they started, but the others are progressing and he didn't keep up. If he already knows his way around a bass and basic theory, then four months with an exercise book like the one I linked to actually should clean up and speed up his technique a lot.
 
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But that's what I meant. The "Musician at heart". He wanted to have school mates, because they could get along, and the actual musicianship got the second priority. He even took Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond and taught him from scratch. That slowed down rehearsals, but they kept going no matter what. Ian FORCED his old school mates into something that they wasn't into. The early John Evan Band consisted of all future members of Tull, in spite of him startin out with a different bunch. They changed a great deal from being an almost run-of-the-mill british blues combo to something entirely different and definitely unique blend of folk/prog. Subsequent intreviews with both Hammond-Hammond, John Evan, and Barrie Barlow reveals that their later complicated stufff like Thick As A Brick/Passion Play and the folky Songs From The Wood wasn't REALLY their passion, even if they could hack it away. When hearing back to those albums these days, I sure can hear them all struggling with the difficult parts. But by then, they had monstrous success and the band members just joined in in the debauchery. You don't leave a band when it's that succesful. If they had music as their first love, they would've carried on afterwards they got sacked in time for the album A 1980.

Jeffrey Hammond did quit in 1975 at the absolute pinnacle of success. He specifically committed to Tull for a given period (5 years?) and held true to it. Hasn't lifted a bass since.

Tull in general are not exactly known for their bass players.

This is ridiculously off topic to the original subject though.
 
You're skipping something here. You tell the guitarists has been playing since they were 11. Says nothing about it at all. Since we don't know their age NOW, and not even your own age as you haven't told use neither how long you've been playing, nor they've been playing. Have the guitarists played since 11 ? Yes, but if they're 15 now? And you 50? You started to get somewhat serious 3 years ago... have you been playing since 11, and you're ... like... 20? 21? 30?

This information tells us very little. You should ONLY state how long all of you've been playing. That's all that matters.
Um I believe he did. He said he had 3 years playing experience.
 
Um I believe he did. He said he had 3 years playing experience.

No, he bloody hell didn't! He said "I started getting somewhat serious about 3 years ago". Which is definitely NOT when he started to play at all.

And the others? By saying "Playing since 11" and the drummer "seemingly since before he was born" doesn't help exactly, does it?
 
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Ok I'll skip the Tull bit from now on then.

THE RISK!

Of just concentrating of giving you a 4 months ramp up time, is dangerous. It is sort of, like just studying for that graduate exam at university, and remembering things just for the test that day, and forget about it later on. You've made the marathon within the qualifying time. Just. On a short memory comparison, having to memorize a phone number just long enough to dial it. You know, the "just to get in" or "just to stay in" stance.

Have you give it a thought, that while you may pass their "test" i e whatever that is, you may undeliberately fall into a slow slippery slope and lose the things you've learned? By becoming lackadaisical without really noticing it? You should think/practice and plan for beyond those 4 months. You may have ramped up your fitness/ambitions to their liking, so they'll keep you, but what are the guarantees that they will not address you with the same thing again, in say 8 months? Even if you kept your skills up to snuff, and kept on practicing after those 4 months? I e even if you do become better, and develops to a much greater degree than they do.

While they have not climbed the same flight of stairs up to get better, you may keep on struggling with those flight of stairs to keep up to your level, that is on par with their.

I may seem like a croaker or something, but in order for you to enjoy and stay enjoyed with your playing, is that you should look beyond that bands deadline. It's practicing for your own good, and not to please someone else, only. All the positive things, and pep talk, has already been made by others around here by this time, and I sincerely agree with them, and of course, I wish you really good luck, and have no doubts at all that you'll make it.

But just so, that you have turned on all stones on this. Thought about this and that. And that nothing can derail you, and come as a negative surprise (or shock) to you later on.
 
Just on the subject of slap, cause it looks like it came up somehow...best advice that worked for me (may not work for everyone)

"If you can't do it on a desk, you can't do it on a bass"

Practice rhythms on tables, at work etc. Use the edge of the table or something so that you are working on being precise like you would be on a string, but you don't need a bass to actually practice ALL right hand technique. Same goes for any sort of fingerstyle especially if you are incorporating all five right hand fingers as part of your style.

Myself I am still working on thumb style (not slap) where you will be playing with your thumb and muting the string with the palm of your hand, only has had a few applications so far but when its the right one it really works.
 
Honch I hope you were just saying that sarcastically because that's very similar to saying no need to learn subtraction or multiplication when I can just do addition.

There may come a time when the op wants to do something else, or a group expects him to be capable of doing something else to get the gig. Especially in this ops case if he gets the boot, he might want to find another band that expects something different from him.

I have hired bass players for my original side projects and expect that they are rounded musicians because it shows commitment to themselves as a player first.

I will say, and maybe I missed a post by the op, if the current band wants him to play pick style then yes spend your time over the next four months focusing on that.
 
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There are so many replies here that I certainly did not read them all. But...IMHO you would benefit greatly by recording your practice sessions and then listening to them while at home. That is what I did when learning URB and it worked miracles.

My approach was to listen to a recorded session tune without playing and try to define what I was missing in my part. Then I would do it again and play over it (not recording it) with my bass. Then I would mark sections of the tune that needed work. Bear in mind this was all done with a tape cassette boom box, doing it now with digital recording devices would be faster and a whole lot easier. So, play the session recording through your home stereo. Play your bass over the top of it as it is playing. Mark the sections that need alterations. Play session recording again with your new ideas. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It sometimes helps to turn the bass frequencies down on the session recording so you can hear yourself playing along. I recommend that you do not attempt to do this at the high volume levels that you play live! Back the volume waay off and concentrate on the groove that works for the tune, get it down, then amaze them at your next rehearsal.
 
1. Lessons
2. a bass in your living room so you can practice while watching tv, etc.
I second this.... I totally forgot about my TV guitar.... while watching TV have your fingers making music, it's a great way to come up with licks, form good habits, practice scales, develop muscle memory. Only great things came from having a TV guitar like an acoustic bass so you don't have to plug it in, avoid the wife's nagging cuz an amps in the living room.
 
I second this.... I totally forgot about my TV guitar.... while watching TV have your fingers making music, it's a great way to come up with licks, form good habits, practice scales, develop muscle memory. Only great things came from having a TV guitar like an acoustic bass so you don't have to plug it in, avoid the wife's nagging cuz an amps in the living room.
i sometimes..metal out..to the commercials on guitar...nothing like a screaming lead to an oreo cookie commercial..funny thing is if you just play along to anything..radio..tv..you learn to time and find the key and be much more adaptive to the music