...for a gig in a bar that has a decent PA? Kinda new to this bass rig business (primarily a guitar player) and most of my bassist mates reckon 300w is the minimum yet I've read several posts saying they've gigged succesfully using 180w combos. So what is the consensus? It will be with a pop/rock covers band that has a keyboard player, two guitarists and a decent (can control his hits) drummer.
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Absolute minimum wattage you will gig with..
- Thread starter d3nzi0
- Start date
Hi.
I've gigged with 80W SWR WM10 combo on a situation You describe.
Decent PA can obviously mean anything, but if it's indeed a decent PA, that means the monitors are decent as well, so You might not need an amp at all.
With PA support, the stage amps are just the monitors for all the band-members, anything louder than to fill the needs of the band, and You're fighting with the PA. The end result with that approach is that the whole suffers. Always.
Regards
Sam
I've gigged with 80W SWR WM10 combo on a situation You describe.
Decent PA can obviously mean anything, but if it's indeed a decent PA, that means the monitors are decent as well, so You might not need an amp at all.
With PA support, the stage amps are just the monitors for all the band-members, anything louder than to fill the needs of the band, and You're fighting with the PA. The end result with that approach is that the whole suffers. Always.
Regards
Sam
You can't answer this because it depends on the total equipment available. I've done gigs with my amp and cab in the van, using the decent monitors and a DI. The gig I played last week provided me a HUGE Ampeg system, that was running really low, because it was too far away from me, so again, my monitor did the work. I rather like Carlsbro equipment - always have, even though it's not thought that highly of by many, and I have a 2 x 10" 60W combo and a bigger head and 4 x 10" cab. Very often my choice is made once we see the space. If the supplied PA is a bit lacking at the bottom, I'll use the bigger cab and turn up, but if the system has good bottom end, then the small combo is fine. I like the sound of 10" speakers, so when the combo started to be a bit compromised, I just bought the same, but bigger. I'm happy with a DI or a mic into the PA.
In your case, what is going into the PA - everything? So the PA does the work, and you get a quiet stage, or do you want/need to be as loud as the drummer on stage? If monitors are rubbish, then you need more oomph. So many variables that any kind of rule is a bit pointless - BUT - having access to a 300W system will be more versatile than 60W. Nothing says you have to run the big system loud!
In your case, what is going into the PA - everything? So the PA does the work, and you get a quiet stage, or do you want/need to be as loud as the drummer on stage? If monitors are rubbish, then you need more oomph. So many variables that any kind of rule is a bit pointless - BUT - having access to a 300W system will be more versatile than 60W. Nothing says you have to run the big system loud!
It all depends how loud the room is and how big. Up to around 200 people in a bar I reckon you are completely wasting your time adding PA support to bass rig and better off with a hoofy rig. That is where the 300w amp comes in with moderate band stage volume not trying to blow the walls out.
Read the Arsonaut thread recently bumped in the live sound forum for tales of a 300 capacity club with full PA. Trying to get loud kids to go hifi and failing. That's where a little bass amp or a big one on low volume can work wonders, provided the whole band is on the same page.
Read the Arsonaut thread recently bumped in the live sound forum for tales of a 300 capacity club with full PA. Trying to get loud kids to go hifi and failing. That's where a little bass amp or a big one on low volume can work wonders, provided the whole band is on the same page.
I've probably played at least 50 shows with my old Ampeg SB-12, all 20 watts into 1-12
Full band; drums, one electric guitar and one acoustic and me. if the guitar players are using sensible amps for the room and drummer is listening, not just bashing away, you can get away with this kind of setup and not even think about needing more power
Full band; drums, one electric guitar and one acoustic and me. if the guitar players are using sensible amps for the room and drummer is listening, not just bashing away, you can get away with this kind of setup and not even think about needing more power
100W Ampeg BA115 which is the house system at Club Bohemia in Cambridge but I couldnt hear myself so id have to say 200W has to be minium in a modern setting with no FOH.
Last year I played through a GK 65 watt combo supplied by harvard university- I.could actually hear myself with the volume and gain both maxed but those awful farts still haunt me to this day
Last year I played through a GK 65 watt combo supplied by harvard university- I.could actually hear myself with the volume and gain both maxed but those awful farts still haunt me to this day
Depends on many factors; how loud the guitarist is, how heavy a hitter the drummer is, the type of music you play. Honestly, I can get my SVT with a fridge loud conversation quiet and it still sounds awesome. I can't get a 50w combo to overcome my drummer. She hits hard. I haven't had many gigs where the PA support is good enough that I could DI and not worry about it. Most of the places I have played, the PA has pretty much been vocals only, but I'm not playing the super classy joints that everyone seems to play.
There are people on Talkbass who run big wattage SS amps into lightweight cabs and play coffee house gigs. Jimmy M has run his B15 on some really huge gigs. Any amp can be made to work, especially with PA support, but I'd rather have the horsepower on tap and not have to use it then to have to pin my volume knob and find myself wanting.
Perhaps look at getting a smaller cab (2x10 or 1x15) to start and get a big wattage head. If you're not needing tubes, power is relatively cheap these days. If you find you don't have enough volume, add speakers.
There are people on Talkbass who run big wattage SS amps into lightweight cabs and play coffee house gigs. Jimmy M has run his B15 on some really huge gigs. Any amp can be made to work, especially with PA support, but I'd rather have the horsepower on tap and not have to use it then to have to pin my volume knob and find myself wanting.
Perhaps look at getting a smaller cab (2x10 or 1x15) to start and get a big wattage head. If you're not needing tubes, power is relatively cheap these days. If you find you don't have enough volume, add speakers.
It really depends.
I'm not sure I've ever actually played a gig in a bar with a decent PA and decent monitors, though. Must be nice.
I'm not sure I've ever actually played a gig in a bar with a decent PA and decent monitors, though. Must be nice.
Check out the new bassplayer mag- Ed Frieland reviews these cool little AER amps- and gigs with them. They are very small and loud, but they aren't cheap. So yeah, it depends, watts are only one part of the equation. Check out the TC BG series- I gigged that BG250 15" combo 12 times, plenty loud- and actually could hear my bass at the back of an 80 foot long bar. (Not a big crowd though)
Depends on the venue, depends on the band, depends on the cab, depends whether it's SS or tube...
Don't forget your speaker compliment and cabinet too.
60 measly watts into an 810 is usually gonna be a hell of a lot louder than 100 watts into a single 15.
The wattage only tells half the story if you're looking for volume.
60 measly watts into an 810 is usually gonna be a hell of a lot louder than 100 watts into a single 15.
The wattage only tells half the story if you're looking for volume.
I would say 300w would me absulut minimum. But I always play with rock and metal band at clubs and bars who only have PA for vocals.
Cheers guys for the responses so far.
The PA will support vocals, the kick and snare + an overhang mic for the kit, and the guitar amps will be mic'ed too.
I'll consider the suggestion of high powered head + 1x12. If more volume is needed I'll add another 1x12.
The PA will support vocals, the kick and snare + an overhang mic for the kit, and the guitar amps will be mic'ed too.
I'll consider the suggestion of high powered head + 1x12. If more volume is needed I'll add another 1x12.
