Double Bass Accompanying Fiddle Tunes

[Quinn Roberts]

The 1/5 thing is necessary if you want people to dance to the tune! Combined with a mando or guitar chuck, it's what lets the tune lift off the ground, so to speak. And, at least in old time, the music originates from a dance tradition and not a stage/show one, so that feel is often pretty important. Playing simple 1/5 also means that you can use a repetitive tonic later in the tune to build suspense. When you pull out the bow, you're already out of the box/tradition unless you're playing the melody exactly, but if you do it right, you can turn folk music into classical, just like that...

I'll try messing with the root and fifth some more today and let you guys know how it turns out. I certainly understand the concept in the sense of a traditional bluegrass/old-time band. As mentioned by a few others up above, I think I need to work on further developing my ear for this style of music.

The first one not necessarily limited to fiddle and fiddle tunes, but I think this applies. These inspired me to start working on playing arco on blue grass melodies with my teacher. I think Kowert is a pretty awesome blue grass bassist.

Kowert may be my favorite bassist currently. The stuff he does with Hawktail is incredible! I've actually had these videos in my "watch later" list for quite some time now, thanks for reminding me I need to watch these!

 

[Don Hergert]

They specified Scottish and Cape Breton style playing

I'll mention here that I also will be playing arco alongside this player.

They??? Arco???

It sounds like we're fumbling around not knowing what you're really walking into. It would really be nice to know the complete situation. And it would be nice to know your DB background, what you're used to doing.

If "They" means there will be more than one fiddler, or any other instruments involved, you may be lucky enough to have some harmony to help guide you.

If they want you to play arco, they may be wanting simple background, or, they may want some form of twin-fiddle or call-response from you which can be pretty demanding.

If they're asking you to play tunes that they haven't specified for you, they're expecting improv from you.

Maybe you also don't know what you're walking into, some jams are pretty random.

I'd suggest go in humbly with no assumptions and find out what your situation is. Keep your ears and mind open and do what you can, it sounds like you really have no option but to wing it. If it works out, you've got some people to play with, and after the 1st session you'll have a much more complete picture of what they're wanting from you. If it doesn't work out, nothing is lost except some time, and your reward is experience.

 

[210superair]

The first one not necessarily limited to fiddle and fiddle tunes, but I think this applies. These inspired me to start working on playing arco on blue grass melodies with my teacher. I think Kowert is a pretty awesome blue grass bassist.



This is more a fiddle tune rendition by Kowert in pizz, Whiskey Before Breakfast:

I'm gonna start working on doing my Arkansas traveler with that thrown in, really cool. Great videos all....

 

[james condino]

""Modal" in old time is the catch-all for everything that's not Ionian.".....

 

[Quinn Roberts]

They??? Arco???

It sounds like we're fumbling around not knowing what you're really walking into. It would really be nice to know the complete situation. And it would be nice to know your DB background, what you're used to doing.

If "They" means there will be more than one fiddler, or any other instruments involved, you may be lucky enough to have some harmony to help guide you.

This is the second time this week my improper use of "they" has confused someone; might be time for me to his the grammar woodshed too!
No, it'll just be the two of us (me on bass, and a fiddler).

If they want you to play arco, they may be wanting simple background, or, they may want some form of twin-fiddle or call-response from you which can be pretty demanding.

If they're asking you to play tunes that they haven't specified for you, they're expecting improv from you.

Maybe you also don't know what you're walking into, some jams are pretty random.

The fiddler was originally looking for a cellist to just accompany their playing on a few fiddle tunes when I contacted them (this is why I've been listening to Natalie Haas). I told them that I play double bass, but could play some fiddle tunes with the bow and wouldn't mind learning more about the style of music.
The fiddler also mentioned they don't mind helping someone who is newer to this style of music learn; so all in all it's a very low pressure situation. But, as I mentioned above, it would still be nice to prepare myself beforehand so that we can spend more time actually playing music instead of learning it. There's a list of tunes I was sent that I posted in the thread above, so, luckily, I'm not walking into this too blind even.
Me being fairly naive to this kind of music assumed that there may have be some general concepts shared between stringed instruments (bass, cello, fiddle, etc.) when accompanying a soloist. I guess I'm sorta trying mimic a cello when it comes right down to it instead of actually playing the upright in a traditional sense.

I'd suggest go in humbly with no assumptions and find out what your situation is. Keep your ears and mind open and do what you can, it sounds like you really have no option but to wing it. If it works out, you've got some people to play with, and after the 1st session you'll have a much more complete picture of what they're wanting from you. If it doesn't work out, nothing is lost except some time, and your reward is experience.

This is certainly how I'm viewing it. I'm honestly just excited to hear someone play fiddle!

 

[Don Hergert]

I bet you'll love it.

With the list of songs, you can hear the arrangements that are available online, so that's great. But, I would suggest not coming in overly prepared, because the people you're going to work with may not use the same arrangements, plus, it's good to be a little on edge with improv -- it's not about doing the song perfectly, it's about doing it creatively.

Have a great time, I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch and listen.

 

[Ed S]

They specified Scottish and Cape Breton style playing
I've been listening to Natalie Haas and Alasdair Fraser and trying to get ideas from her cello playing; I'd gladly take some other listening recommendations if anybody has some!

Hell, if you are capable of getting ideas from HER, you've got nothing to worry about! One thing to notice is she does a ton of rhythmic chopping. I've been working on more of that - a la Mike Block. My fiddler and cellist say the reason I'm picking it up so quickly is that I never really had good bow technique!

Just go into it with an open mind and a good attitude. A great many fiddlers really are lousy at keeping a steady pace. So figure out what the fiddler wants. You don't need to be the beat cop, but most fiddlers I've played with (including the one I'm married to!) REALLY appreciate a solid rhythm. They fall over themselves to compliment you for doing the simplest thing - keeping it steady.

Also, most fiddler tunes can be made about as complicated - or as simple - as you wish. Just ask for the key and time signature, and start off sticking to long bows or 1-5. In most jams/rehearsals I play in, there is no harm in asking the fiddler to stop the 1st or 2d time through, when you realize you don't know where the song goes. Just ask "What note are you playing there?" I did it just yesterday. One fiddler launched into Tamlin in D, and NONE of the rest of us could figure the 2d chord the first couple times thru. (Turns out it was Bb). I stopped him - he later thanked me. Sure was more fun with us allknowing what we were supposed to be playing!

And if it is crooked, just think of it as an extra 1, 2, however many beats it takes until the rhythm starts up again.

Like I said, bring a good attitude, an eagerness to learn, and have fun. If that isn't enough for the fiddler, then find someone else to have fun with.

(How come, when folk think a tune is modal, they ALWAYS suggest it is mixolydian?)

 

[Oddly]

Have a listen on youtube to some Transatlantic Sessions tracks.
Danny Thompson on bass, backing a very wide range of artists, from many genres.

 

[Quinn Roberts]

Hell, if you are capable of getting ideas from HER, you've got nothing to worry about! One thing to notice is she does a ton of rhythmic chopping. I've been working on more of that - a la Mike Block. My fiddler and cellist say the reason I'm picking it up so quickly is that I never really had good bow technique!

Just go into it with an open mind and a good attitude. A great many fiddlers really are lousy at keeping a steady pace. So figure out what the fiddler wants. You don't need to be the beat cop, but most fiddlers I've played with (including the one I'm married to!) REALLY appreciate a solid rhythm. They fall over themselves to compliment you for doing the simplest thing - keeping it steady.

That is one thing I picked up on in her playing that I was going to try to incorporate too actually.
One of the Kowert videos above were from Artistworks so I dug a little deeper on there channel and actually found these videos on performing the chop on a cello.

There's some other videos of their's that I wouldn't mind checking out either; some on more specific bluegrass cello playing and a video for accompanying a soloist on upright in a more bluegrass situation.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Kowert may be my favorite bassist currently. The stuff he does with Hawktail is incredible!

I haven't been the same since I saw them live.. made me switch back to French bow too! Really moving stuff imo

 

[Quinn Roberts]

Have a listen on youtube to some Transatlantic Sessions tracks.
Danny Thompson on bass, backing a very wide range of artists, from many genres.

Thanks!
I did a quick google on him after reading this; I absolutely love Pentangle!

 

[Quinn Roberts]

I haven't been the same since I saw them live.. made me switch back to French bow too! Really moving stuff imo

I actually decided to stick with french bow myself when I realized it was what both he and Edgar Meyer play with.
I could have gotten to see Punch Brothers next year at DelFest had I gotten tickets, but that certainly isn't the same as Hawktail. Kowert isn't really the centerpiece of the former band either.

 

[Ed S]

I play bass/clawhammer in a 3-piece string band w/ a cello/mando and fiddle/guitar. We all saw Mike Block at a local violin shop a couple of years ago, then on his Chicago stop of his Wright houses tour. Then the 2 of them attended his camp down in Fla. I'm pretty sure they have a bass curriculum, and Natalie Hass is an instructor. I REALLY dig bluegrass cello, and the 3 of us are working on some fun rhythmic stuff w/ the 3 of us chopping.

Here's a fun clip.

 

[210superair]

I actually decided to stick with french bow myself when I realized it was what both he and Edgar Meyer play with.
I could have gotten to see Punch Brothers next year at DelFest had I gotten tickets, but that certainly isn't the same as Hawktail. Kowert isn't really the centerpiece of the former band either.

Saw the punch bros, absolutely fantastic. Saw um in Ann Arbor at the MI Theater. Something else. Saw the infamous stringdusters in Madison WI. Highly recommend their show as well, very nice. Their dobro player is unreal.

 

[210superair]

That is one thing I picked up on in her playing that I was going to try to incorporate too actually.
One of the Kowert videos above were from Artistworks so I dug a little deeper on there channel and actually found these videos on performing the chop on a cello.

There's some other videos of their's that I wouldn't mind checking out either; some on more specific bluegrass cello playing and a video for accompanying a soloist on upright in a more bluegrass situation.

Just started playing cello, and will definitely have a look at this video. Very cool.

 

[210superair]

Here's a cell phone recording of my peeps doin a Celt fiddle tune tonight. Forgive me, I've had a rough week with personal issues, so I forced my band to drink heavy with me tonight (great friends), but you get the idea...

 

[delta7fred]

I first became aware of Paul Kowert (well I think it is him playing) when someone posted this in the "What song are you listening to right this moment" thread. (I know there is no fiddle in it but I really enjoy his playing.)

 

[Quinn Roberts]

Well I've certainly gotten more comfortable playing with the root/fifth; right off the bat it got me mining out the chord progressions a lot quicker as well! Some more listening has really helped too. I think I may have just found myself in foreign grounds there the first couple of days; lost, confused, and honestly a bit worried.

This video was a major help, though it seemed like an obvious idea once I saw it. Really gave me something "more musical" to focus my playing on; up to then I was mixing long bows with whatever I thought sounded cool... Well I still am to some degree!


On a side note, speaking of more progressive bluegrass bassists, has anyone ever listened to Ranaan Meyer? (Don't believe there's any relation to Edgar Meyer)
I don't think there's any bow action here, but the guy kills it!