I wonder if people would have the same opinion if this claim about an non working product was made an advertised by a Fender, Ampeg or Behringer in order to gain further market share?xyllion said:
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Accugroove site update.....
- Thread starter Mark Reccord
- Start date
- Status
that's an excellent frame of reference to introduce, particularly considering all the crying about fender buying SWR.
robb.
robb.
xyllion
Commercial User
- Jan 14, 2003
- 2,132
- 185
- 62
- Disclosures
- Owner, Looperlative Audio Products
All I am saying is that no good can come from beating up Mark and Accugroove. Why is everybody getting so angry about this topic? If you are unhappy with your Accugroove cabinets, then call them and get the situation resolved. If you are not a customer, but coming on here and putting them down, then you are not helping them to resolve the problem. You are simply making the situation worse.
On top of that, they have responded to all this by removing the switch in question. So, it seems to me that Accugroove has done its part to resolve the situation. So, I have to ask, why continue to beat them up?
It seems like everybody is looking to oust an evil ruler, but I don't think that is the situation here. A mistake of some sort was made, but now it is being corrected. Give them a chance.
On top of that, they have responded to all this by removing the switch in question. So, it seems to me that Accugroove has done its part to resolve the situation. So, I have to ask, why continue to beat them up?
It seems like everybody is looking to oust an evil ruler, but I don't think that is the situation here. A mistake of some sort was made, but now it is being corrected. Give them a chance.
Ohhh - GOOD-one, Lo!lo-freq said:
Yup; it's gettin' us all! 'Specially those of us over forty-something. Between entropy and gravity, my once-chisled form is sagging into a homogenous blob...
Maybe someone can invent a switch to fix that, though...
Joe
xyllion said:
If I may paraphrase what I think is going on here, is that the "mistake" was something which someone with even an elementary understanding of electronics should have picked up (ie using capacitors will not change the impendence of a cabinet). Given that Accugroove hold themselves out as being the maker of a high end "boutique" cabinet and that years of research went into the Accuswitch, people have a right to question what has actually happened here.
For example, if even a basic electronics knowledge would have shown that this did not work, do the people at Accugroove simply lack this knowledge? Or, did they know that it didnt work as claimed and nevertheless marketed the product.
If the latter, people have a right to be upset and feel deceived. Particularly those who bought the cabinet on false pretences or those other manufacturers who lost money because their products didn't offer this feature and that was enough to sway *some* people's decision. In some jurisdictions, such as Australia, there are laws which Accugroove may have been in breach of *if* that was the case.
The silence from Accugroove on the issue is even more disconcerting. The only response was to stand by their product in the BassPlayer review:
Accugroove said:
The next response is to take the switch off the market without further explanation.
Why were they unable to offer impendance plots which prooved the switch worked? Again, thats a fairly basis test to run on any peice of equipment and surely a high end manufacturer would have done this before releasing a "revolutionary" product onto the market which would surely be tested?
I don't think its a witchhunt so much as it is inquisitive people looking for an answer as to why they should not feel deceived by Accugroove's claims and why they should trust Accugroove's claims in the future. IMO.
xyllion said:
Who's angry? Not me. In fact, most of the anger I've seen on this topic has been directed at the people questioning the veracity of the switch by people who own Accugroove cabs.
I do believe, however, that it is up to the consumers to keep manufacturers honest. I also think they we have the right to question manufacturers on their claims, especially claims like this one. Not just Accugroove, any manufacturer.
I have never made any personal comments about or put down Mark Wright, as I don't know him. However, I calls 'em like I sees 'em on technical points. If that's construed as putting him down, I can't really help that. Even though the switch has been discontinued (at least for now) I still wonder why it was introduced in the first place. If it actually turned out that it worked I'd be the first to rescind any comments I've made on the subject.
If true? All this speculation! Can't someone just measure one??! If the circuit is like the one I saw on... was it Acme's? site, then there'd be a couple ways of measuring the impedance (Z and phase angleØ would be best) at two or more frequencies WITHOUT opening the cab, even!Bassist30 said:
It should be easily and positively quantifiable if that's the exact circuit or not. One could at least measure the AC impedance with only a signal generator, a volt meter and an Ammeter. Heck - from what I've been reading, I guess you wouldn't even have to measure; just dial-up a few hundred hertz at some voltage, and flip the switch - if the current doesn't half or double for the same input voltage, then somethin's-up!
Else, especially if I were a dealer who's sold many of them, I'd probably pull the block out (someone said the guts are hidden in an epoxy block, right?), and saw the thing up with a bandsaw to see what's up!
Joe
Oh - so someone DID test it...Mark Reccord said:
Well if they tested it, they tested it! It should be pretty simple for even a humble-little lab to determine the truth.
I know I could do it right here in the QA Lab at MTE Corp; CERTAINLY in the Engineering Lab!
AG's hoping the string theory will be proven and cut them a break with some new technology.lo-freq said:
In the case of Tara Labs the government was defending their reputation, not protecting the consumer. They didn't even consider the fraud against the public. There really is no mechanism in place for the government to protect a consumer over the profits of a company.SMASH said:
As a NAMM member however maybe I could file a complaint about fraud on the trade show floor. They'll be at booth 1270 in hall E and I'll check them out in 2 weeks. I'll see if I can get a statement on video tape
Joe P said:
Joe P said:
That someone was me, using a El Whappo kindly provided by Fuzzhead. I guess the original thread is rather long so stuff can get lost. But if you look through it, you'll see several impedance plots and lots of discussion that followed.
Click here for the impedance sweeps. They appear on page 35 of the thread starting at post no 695.
Petebass said:
BP magazine also did an impedance sweep, for what that's worth.
I will gladly do a full bank of tests including impedance,impedance phase angle, frequency and phase response on any cabinet if anyone wants to send me one.
I was actually considering buying an Accugroove so I could test it but the evidence against the switch is pretty conclusive so I'll save my money.see, but here's what i don't get. you know more about this particular cabinet than just about any other in production. you know exactly what its impedance curve looks like, and you know all about its construction and its sound. despite the specious moral character of the company -- which i can understand if you'd rather not support on that level -- i would think the el whappo makes the safest possible 4 Ohm cabinet on the market. simply because it's an extremely known quantity to a great level of detail.
robb.
robb.
1. How much money did I save you?Mark Reccord said:BP magazine also did an impedance sweep, for what that's worth.
I will gladly do a full bank of tests including impedance,impedance phase angle, frequency and phase response on any cabinet if anyone wants to send me one.
2. Put it in an envelope and send it to me
3. For our Australian TB'ers, I will also be happy to do impedance and phase testing on any cab provided you get it to me somehow.
I agree, also I'd like to remind people that Accugroove has made more than one ridiculous claim. For example that his cabinets were designed by god and god has chosen him to bring this miracle to the people.Mark Reccord said:
IMHO the man is clearly a fraud with the knowledge that once people attach their beliefs to a product no amount of facts will sway their opinion as a claim against the product is now a direct attack on an individuals ego. They will even attack strangers to defend the lie once their faith has been commingled with the advertising. This is a basic associative concept for those involved in advertising. I'm sure we can get a few examples of this here.
I agree with the rest of your post, but lets not exagerate. He never claimed God designed the cab. He did say he felt that God wanted him to bring the design to the people. There's nothing rediculous about that. Lots of people are religious.Moo said:
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Not likely. A lot of people paid a lot of money for AGs in part due to the advertised claims for the AccuSwitch. Whether the spurious claims were intentional fraud, or the result of incomprehensibly poor engineering, a claim for damages against AG from every purchaser is possible. There well may be an enterprising ambulance chaser somewhere already contemplating the one thing that scares manufacturers more than even the Internal Revenue: a Class Action Lawsuit. Any reply to any question about the AccuSwitch from Mark or anyone else at AG other than quoting the 5th Amendment would be even more stupid than the gaffe that got their t*ts in the wringer in the first place.
- Status
