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Acoustic USA News

ZiggyDude

ZiggyDude

Jun 8, 2005
531
58
#1
Greetings!

I have been a Talk Bass member for years – but a bit lagging in making some posts. I hope to make that up some. I had an interesting and very bass related, experience the other week and am admittedly dying to talk about it. It sort of left me on a personal high.

Any bass player who has been about for a decade or two (I refuse to say three!) knows about the bass amps made by Acoustic Control. For its day, it was cutting edge often built without regard to cost, and sold with a lifetime warrantee. Imagine trying to find that now. Unlike most companies now, they started with concert amps for stadiums and over the years gradually added smaller combos. The people who were the forces behind Acoustic went on to either found or work with many later companies such as AMP, SWR, Eden (Russ had a hand in the earlier preamps), and True Tone (PA Systems). The list of top line bands and musicians that toured with Acoustic is impressive. Though being 30 years old it is no longer cutting edge – but still compares well to all but the best of what is being sold today and is still occasionally seen on stage.

As many have probably noticed at Guitar Center, Acoustic is back with a series of bass amps that are manufactured in China. They are a good bang for the buck – like you can get a full stack of a 1x15, 4x10, and a clean 200 watt head for $699. A gentleman, who I only know from posts by the name of Patrick, once worked for Crate USA (St. Louis Music) before the new Acoustic and has done a good job at bringing an interesting line to market.

However, for those that want primo equipment it may not be your choice. What most people don’t know is there is also an “Acoustic USA” that has gathered many of the people from the original Acoustic and they are now designing top shelf bass amps. They range from powered and unpowered cabinets, a new and updated version of the venerable Acoustic 360, and a rack mounted head. Currently they are still in development but prototypes do exist and are being tested by both the famous and not so famous.

Recently I had the pleasure of traveling to the location of Acoustic USA and met the President, George Grexa, and even got to try much of the new stuff. On the Acoustic forum this is of course big news. I have posted a series of snippets describing my journey and also the results of trying the new equipment. On other forums like Talk Bass and TBL nobody knows about this stuff. A few have asked that I also post what I wrote on so that they can also know about both the trip and the new equipment. If you find it long or boring – just skip past it – but I suspect others will enjoy it. For brevity I will just do it at a snippet at a time – though you can get all that has been written so far at the Acoustic site.

Enjoy!
 
#4
Acoustic USA, is great news. This GC China stuff, is nowhere near what the real Acoustic stuff was. Note: I was never a big fan of Acoustic back in the day, but I'm glad to see Acoustic USA is back. I'd like to see what there new line will be like. The old Acoustic stuff was real reliable . So, with all the new technolgy these days . I'm really excited to see there new line, & what new improvements they've made on there amps. No disrespect to anybody who bought the GC stuff either , but this is the real deal. Again just IMO
 
#5
I just bought an AB50 for use as a practice amp - but returned it the next day. It was on the GC Labor Day sale for a great price, I'm of course familiar with the history, I liked it's tone and features, and I have an old 220 that I like. I didn't really push it too hard at GC though.

Got home, put the volume at half, and the thing rattles. I looked a bit online, and found some other people with similar experiences. Even a few who had the same with the B20 here on TB. I then tried the GC floor model as well as the B20 floor model, and they had the same problem. Sounded good below about 40% volume though.

Add in the fact that the manual had goofy spelling errors (acoustic spelled "accoustic" at one point) and several other discrepancies (the frequencies of the EQ were different in different parts of the manual); and the fact that the tolex was seperating in part - and I think it's cheaply made stuff with an historic brand name, decent tone, and floor space at the biggest instrument retailer. The small combos that is - admittedly I haven't tried the big rigs yet. And the 360 is interesting. I'll give the flagship a spin for sure.
 
#6
Honestly, I don't really care where it's made.
As long as gear is well engineered, has a solid manufacturing process, good support and warranty, and has features and performance I need.

Modern engineering does include designing manufacturing processes to consistently reproduce the gear nearly anywhere. Since all the parts are made overseas, it might make more sense and bring the price down to manufacture the amps overseas.

I read a comment on thick wood used for the cabs. A good braced cabinet can use thinner lightweight wood, save on weight, and perform just as good. Lightweight for the same performance is good feature.

As for the "Lifetime warranty" on the original Acoustics, that's gone forever. I wonder what these new ones will have?

GC owns the name, so I imagine these will only be sold at GC.
 
#7
THIS THREAD started about a year ago, when the small Acoustic combos started appearing at GC in time for Christmas. There are a couple posts in there by some involved with the outfit, if you're willing to cull through a lot of opinions and speculation.

Meanwhile, I am anxiously awaiting new, bigger, pro grade products from them. Not that I'm in the market, but I'd like to see the brand get back in the game.
 
#9
From what I can see - Acoustic USA is using USA parts when at all possible. There is no crossover between the USA and Chinese lines either. So, what one does has no affect on what the otehr does.

I hope that nobody minds my typing in detail. I am just having fun at doing it! Maybe it is from the sleep dep and my brain is getting ever softer. They say West Nile virus is spreading again. But the real reason (I hope) is that someone does not drive for hours into unknown areas without being really being into what they are doing. So, I guess the experience has me on a bit of a personal high. So, please indulge. If you are not familiar with the model numbers of the vintage stuff – you can find descriptions at Link Removed

I got into town after a long drive and made it to George’s (Prez of Acoustic USA) office. He was busy with stacks of paper and on the phone with another member of the team. After a quick hello I found comfort in a chair in the office and waited. Next to me was a wheel and caster – like you would put on a cabinet. I was playing with it – noticing the lack of friction and heavy duty construction. Being somewhat addled from the road I found myself infatuated with it. To my left outside of the office door was a large sheet of blue Formica – or similar substance. Acoustic was known for the blue trim and the hue changed slightly over time. The new color is a bit more lush and fits our times and place nicely.

George gets off the phone and says – “Nice wheel, huh?” I concur. He then explains the incredible trouble he went to get a 250 pound test, non marking wheel that was the exact size needed to fit into the new 360 cabinet. I am familiar with the non marking aspect from fork lift tires – no skid marks on the floor. Finding that wheel was a long search of frustration for him that finally paid off. He then tells me the story of the Formica. This was another challenge. The color is long out of style for kitchens. There are many firms that make a substance like this, but acquisitions by domestic and foreign firms scatter inventory and product lines everywhere. Apparently it was like chasing after leaves in the wind. Finally a custom source is found.

So, why do I talk about a friggen’ wheel? Because if Acoustic USA is going to spend this much time and attention on a just a wheel – imagine the attention to detail on all other aspects of cabinet design and construction. The search for the Formica must have been another quest. As I mentioned before –I can be a bit compulsive when in the search for doing something just right and I can imagine. But if the price of an item says quality –then the promise needs backed up in the delivery. These details, in my mind, are part of it.

Stuff happened and he had to get busy with some people that came into the office. So, I stole the moment to wander (snoop) about. Just past the office was a large room with a semi circle of cabinets. In the middle was a mint condition vintage 360, a 320 head sat on top of another new cabinet.

I recognized the 2x10 from the picture that was posted a month ago on the Acoustic site. There were two 4x10 cabs, that looked identical, with the speakers diagonal making the cab taller than your standard. A 2x15 with a horn, two 2x10 cabinets that are designed for extensions to top the new 360, a 2x12, and I knew a reflex 15 was on the way. For the collectors corner a couple of 260 heads sat comfortably to the side. Another vintage 360 was packed and ready for shipment. The box must have been custom made as it snugly fitted the cabinet with the handles and wheels being available to assist movement. The latter point once again pointed to a dedicated attention to detail. There were several other cabinets about of various odd configurations that were still in some phase of construction.

I started to poke about the 4x10 and noticed that the tolex had a really deep luster. I dunno, maybe I just don’t see new tolex enough :-> One long side of the 4x10 had the receptacles to plug casters into it – just like my vintage 402 does. The sides of the cabs have wide blue strips similar to the style of the vintage 260 cabinets. The grill cloth is the same pattern as the old. And – there are the vintage metal corners. I noticed that the grill cloth frames had metal trim – similar to how the old 361 does.

There were some uncovered cabinets that must have been in various stages of construction. The wood is thick voidless marine grade plywood. I recently learned the voidless thing was something that you needed to look for when used in certain types of construction (like boats). I recently had restored a 406 cabinet and at that time was impressed just how sturdy it was. Reinforced, glued, solid. These are no different. If you are on a cruise and the ship starts going down – pull out the speakers and use the thing for a boat!

They had also built a switch box so that a single power source could be switched to one or more cabinets – making them easy to compare. I got a kick out of the fact that the switch box was in the Acoustic colors. Nice touch – even if maybe only a one off custom item used for development.

So far all I was able to do was look at the stuff and steal a quick touch. It hit 12:00 and George announced it was time to go to lunch. Fine with me – and anyway – you don’t argue with a 6’3” man who is hungry :->

More soon!
 
#12
Thanks for giving him the link - I forgot that on the last post - silly me.

So – back to the story - we are getting ready to go to lunch. While waiting to go I noticed some art on the walls from bands George was once in or from record producing. Pretty cool actually. By the way, for anyone who is visiting him, if he says that there is a little tavern close to the office and let’s go – the correct answer is “Yes”. It is a small neighborhood bar where everyone knows everyone’s name. George mentioned it is the unofficial Acoustic USA boardroom :-> I settle in with a menu and ask what’s good. He gives a couple of answers including a fish sandwich. Without looking at the menu I order that and start to nurse a bottle of Bud. Though the two of us have talked on the phone or exchanged email a few times over the years, we have not met in person until now. So it was interesting to exchange stories about what got us into music or how we now manage to get through a day. We chatted for almost two hours before returning. Oh – the fish sandwich came and was amazing. This was not your usual processed square. Someone had breaded a filet or two of fish and then did the fryer. The good size pieces sort of curled up and lent themselves as much to dipping and munching. I saved some for the roll. It makes me curious by the way - is that how they do the “Fish and Chips” thing?

When we got back I started to unload my truck. Time to try some prototype Acoustics! At this point I guess I should describe the way the trials were set up. One needs a “Reference Point” for comparison. So I brought one of my main battle amps. The idea was to compare the Acoustic cabinets not just to each other but also to the cabinet I brought. This is not to say which is better or bad, but rather for purposes of description. The rig I brought can be found at Guitar Center and other stores. You can go there, set the tone controls like the way I did (pictures included) and in a way get an idea how the new gear sounds. It is the best way I can think of to give a description to something as intangible as describing sound.

The Nemesis
The rig I brought was an Ampeg 6x10 HLF with the Ampeg SVT-4Pro head. For those who are not familiar with the product - a brief description. This is not to “Brag” about the Ampeg but to rather to give some idea towards the comparison. The head is an animal and puts out 1400 watts clean at 4 ohms and 1600 at 2. The 4 ohm cabinet handles that power well and I have never made it fart (or is that “Phart”?). This is including the extra punishment since I have the 35hz slider all but pinned and the bass tone control at about 3:00. This is to compensate for the 42hz roll off of the cabinet, I like to have a shaking fundamental of the note. The cabinet is good for small to medium size rooms (up to 250 people) that require competition against Marshall stacks, a strong drummer, and you are not in the PA. The strength is tone and power handling. The Achilles Heal is that it needs to be on a hard floor. Stick it on a carpeted raised stage and you start to lose much of the bottom end.

I purchased this back in 2001 when St. Louis Music was putting out a quality product in both their Ampeg and Crate lines. The one caveat to this is if you go to GC or elsewhere you will be hearing the models now built in Vietnam. I noticed that the head has mysteriously lost 200 watts – and lord knows what has happened to the speakers. But – such is the world economy….

The Trials
The SVT head was plugged into the switch box and would power which ever cabinet was selected. The 6x10 cabinet was also plugged into the switch box and could be turned on or off. With the switch box it is possible to run more than one cabinet at a time. The volume of the head was left where I used it last job at a medium size room where I played in a classic rock band. So, we are using concert level volumes for the test.

I was about finished setting up when the folded W bin with the 15 arrived. Joe, one of the cabinet guys, delivered it after having just got back in from California and was dead tired. Joe – I owe ya a beer by the way. He nestles the 15’ cab into the semicircle with the other cabinets and then notices the Ampeg. Loudly and with indignation he states “What is THAT doing here?” You couldn’t help but get a chuckle – we explain it.

I started off with the vintage 360. This may surprise you, but I have never played through one before. I was impressed with how warm it sounded. Warmer than my 371 – but possibly a bit less gnarly growl. But, that is just a feeling without a true side by side comparison. I can say that I found myself in a bit of awl to try out what many consider the “Holy Grail” of bass amps! And this thing was like mint! My thanks to George for letting me try it.

Next up were the new 4x10 cabinets. The styling was an immediate “YES!” with two wide vertical stripes of Acoustic blue in the way of the 260 cabinets. I love it – bring on the blue, baby! The 4x10 has a very bright tone with a clear low end. I was impressed with how it threw the sound about you. I guess the way to compare with the Ampeg is when you hear the Ampeg you know exactly where the cabinet is. The new Acoustic 4x10 has a better dispersion and tends to surround you with the sound. It has more high end and tends to remind me of the SWR sound. This is a great rock cab and should also have enough snap for the funk players. Power handling was also excellent. With all the cabinets I did not adjust the volume of the Ampeg head. The 4x10 had no trouble and did not fart or break up. The Ampeg had a fatter dry sound in contrast to the clarity of the 4x10. Considering it was 6 speakers versus 4 this was quite impressive. I could not hear a real difference in volume so the Acoustic was plenty efficient.

I had mentioned earlier that there were two 4x10 cabinets that looked identical. I tried both and was immediately surprised by the difference in tone! The better (to me) sounding of the two is the latest prototype. The speakers are the same – but the tuning of the box makes the difference. Once again the attention to detail is apparent. They are not just building a box and bolting speakers into them – these cabinets are being tested and tuned. It may take time – but it is clear that the end product is worth it.

Another thing I liked about the new 4x10 is that it is taller. Most 4x10 cabs are a simple square box with the 4 speakers set like half an SVT. Compact enough I guess and more than tall enough if sat on top of a single 18 or something. But I never liked using them individually. This is because all the tone is shooting past your feet and you can’t really hear the clarity or granularity of the sound. It is possible to set the cabinet on a road case closer to ear level to alleviate that problem, but then you are going to lose the advantageous of using the floor as part of the enclosure and thus lose some bottom end. The Acoustic has the speakers set so that the cabinet is taller and alleviates the problem. In short – it will be more fun to gig with! I would think that it should help with projection. The 4x10 also has an adjustable horn – so you can control the higher frequencies and fatten the sound some if you want.

And yes – I want one.

Well – I have typed enough for now. I want to get this posted and will next move onto the 2x10. If you want a pic of how the EQ was set – that is on the Acoustic board along with the rest of these posts to date.
 
#14
Hi Saxofunk

Thanks for the compliment! Maybe I should send a resume - can I use you for a reference? :-)

What do you mean by the "Comb Filtering" - I am not aware of it.

These cabs were definitely a rectangle. It wa actually kind of a relief not to see the same old 4x10 for a change.

Thanx,

- Ziggy -
 
#16
lug - thanks for the link. Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up. :o
I recall the term being used in other threads pertaining to 4x10s and methods of stacking a pair of 2x10s, not necessarily in a positive context.

EDIT: After searching for some of those threads and coming up relatively empty handed, I have to conclude that comb filtering is really a non-issue. The musical world is full of 4x10 and 4x12 rigs... if there was a real problem things would have changed decades ago. Sorry I dragged it into this.

PS - I'll be happy to write a recommendation for you Ziggy, though it appears you're writing your own. ;)
 
#17
saxofunk said:
lug - thanks for the link. Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up. :o
I recall the term being used in other threads pertaining to 4x10s and methods of stacking a pair of 2x10s, not necessarily in a positive context.

EDIT: After searching for some of those threads and coming up relatively empty handed, I have to conclude that comb filtering is really a non-issue. The musical world is full of 4x10 and 4x12 rigs... if there was a real problem things would have changed decades ago. Sorry I dragged it into this.
Click to expand...
Some people are more attuned to comb filtering issues than others. I happen to be one of them. When I set up a rig based on the things our resident audio scientist Bill Fitzmaurice talks about, I like my sound across the stage better. I find my tone is much more consistent from one side of the stage to the other. However, I still love a good 810 and I'm willing to overlook comb filtering issues for it.
 
#18
After trying the 4x10 cab I moved onto the 2x10. This is a popular size for many and there are quite a few competitors in the industry. Probably not the easiest place for a high end unit to come charging in. From outside observation the 2x10 looks like a 4x10 with the bottom two speakers cut off. Once again this makes it a bit taller than the average 2x10 and should have the same advantageous in projection and stage presence I mentioned about the 4x10. But this is where the similarities ended. The 2x10 has a very thick and deep sound. Compared to the Ampeg, I would say that the voicing was more similar, than with the 4x10. Where the 4x10 has a somewhat scooped sound in the lower middle range the 2x10 is very fat and has more low end presence. It is also very loud for its size! As before – I did not adjust the volume on the SVT – the cabinet seemed to be handling the power well and I was not getting any farts.

I am not sure if I went into much detail about the basses being used. One was a 4 string USA 1984 vintage BC Rich Mockingbird with the active package. The other was an Alembic Rogue 5 string with the extra electric package of the bass/treble booster switches and Q circuit. The 2x10 handles both the 4 and the lower notes of the 5 string. I was also able to vary the attack from gentle to strong with the fingers. Once again the speakers did not seem to complain about the extra torture.

This cabinet will deliver what many would consider more a “Classic” bass tone. Deep and full but without a lot of metallic highs. I checked the variable attenuation on the horn and made sure it was all the way up. Players that will like this cabinet are anyone that needs to put a lot of sound while carrying a smaller rig. It will fit well with classic rock and also the flat wound string blues guys will probably like this. I am not much of a funk player – but I am sure that it can be EQ’d to give the desired tonal response.

As another mention about the test method. As I moved from cabinet to cabinet I did not back off the low end bass equalization on the amp any. The EQ settings a big cab got were the same given to a small cab. In some cases I actually added a bit more bottom with the “Ultra Low” switch on the amp (just for torture). The job of the cabinets, regardless of size, was to handle the load. It may sound a little unfair maybe to the little guys. But in the world when you are gigging and a bass player starts needing to keep up with the band – you need that solidarity in the speaker cab you are using.

I liked the 2x10 as it is something that could immediately fit into my inventory of bass amps. I already have a selection of large amps ranging from big club use to outdoor venues. But other than a somewhat heavy combo or 4x10, I really don’t have something that I could wing into the back seat of a small car and hope to cover a small to medium room or loud practice with. In this way the 2x10 was doing the job.

By the way – all the cabs are the same width. This was purposely done so that you could stack them. The stripes will all line up to :-> That was another detail that I noticed. In fact, George mentioned that he had been keeping on the designers to insure that all the cabs would be compatible with each other.
 
#19
Ziggy,

Great to see you over here.:cool:

Thanks again for your awesome write-ups.

I'll leave out my usual 70's TV references :o and let you do your thing.

It's ceratinly good to hear that some "famous" folks may be tinkering with the protos. Hopefully someone "remembered" a certain fellows "phone number", I'll leave that alone too... Other than I think perhaps one of the New Acoustic USA ad pic's may want to use, oh let's just say..."The Ocean" as a back drop! Big Blue Sky of course. Sorry, I just could not resist.

Many Thanks Again,

Looking forward to your future installments.

Take Good Care,

Play On!:bassist:

Bassmore




"Ozone Baby!?!" Ooops, there I go again, musta slipped.:rollno::D
 
#20
Im confused about who owns the rights to the Acoustic name. How is it possible that two entirely different companies own the same name. I have never heard of such a thing. This is going to create a lot of confusion for the average joe or salesman. The China stuff is using the original name and font scheme. Wont this be a marketing nightmare for the new Acoustic.... "real" Acoustic...the Acoustic that is made in USA....you know the Acoustic that is more higher end...the non-China Acoustic. You get my point? You would think the China stuff could at least have a subname like "Squire" does for Fender. If not, I guess people will have to look at the fine print on the back of the amp. I guess everyone will be asking for clarification, similar to the current situation of people wanting to know if an Ampeg is pre Viet-Ampeg. Again, a marketing nightmare. Or am I missing something?
 

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