Adding weight to my strings

[Al Bass]

It occurred to me whenever I switch from playing my Music Man SR5 to my Fender Jazz 5 string, that the feel of the strings on the SR5 has more "weight" to them, even though both basses have the same 45 - 125 DR Fatbeams strings on them with comparable setup.

It feels like I have lighter gauge strings on the Fender. Could this be because the SR5 is 22 frets verses 20 on the Fender, which might translate to more string tension? Or maybe it's because of that bigger bridge.

I would love to have that same string "weight" feel on the Fender without going to a heavier gauge.
Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[lz4005]

It feels like I have lighter gauge strings on the Fender. Could this be because the SR5 is 22 frets verses 20 on the Fender, which might translate to more string tension?

Number of frets has nothing to do with string tension.
If the two instruments are the same scale length, with the same strings and tuned to the same pitch then the tension is the same. Period.
They may feel different, but the number of pounds of pull the tuners are exerting on the strings is identical.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Like Iz4005 says, if the scale length is the same, and the strings are the same, then the actual tension in the strings is the same. The length of the fingerboard or number of frets have nothing to do with that.

However, the strings can feel different for several reasons. In this case, your Fender most likely has a softer, more springy frame. The frame (mostly the neck) bends easier with less force. When you pull sideways on the string, the frame is flexing a little bit. The MusicMan is a stiffer frame; it doesn't move as much when you apply force.

So, if you pull on the strings with same number of pounds of force on your fingertip, the string on the Fender will move farther to the side. It will feel softer than the string on the MusicMan. But the actual tension in both strings is the same.

It gets confusing, I know. We often use the term Snap to define this thing about how the string feels, which is different from the actual Tension in the string.

 

[lz4005]

However, the strings can feel different for several reasons. In this case, your Fender most likely has a softer, more springy frame.

Yep. Could easily be that, or a combination of several things. There's a surprising number of variables that contribute to the feel of a bass.

 

[stigbeve]

The A and D strings on my six string feel 'lighter' than the same size strings
on my 4 banger.

 

[Al Bass]

Like Iz4005 says, if the scale length is the same, and the strings are the same, then the actual tension in the strings is the same. The length of the fingerboard or number of frets have nothing to do with that.

However, the strings can feel different for several reasons. In this case, your Fender most likely has a softer, more springy frame. The frame (mostly the neck) bends easier with less force. When you pull sideways on the string, the frame is flexing a little bit. The MusicMan is a stiffer frame; it doesn't move as much when you apply force.

So, if you pull on the strings with same number of pounds of force on your fingertip, the string on the Fender will move farther to the side. It will feel softer than the string on the MusicMan. But the actual tension in both strings is the same.

It gets confusing, I know. We often use the term Snap to define this thing about how the string feels, which is different from the actual Tension in the string.

Thanks Bruce. That's it exactly as you described; a softer, springy feel. Peace.

 

[ZenG]

I have a sneaking suspicion that "neck radius" contributes to that because I have noticed that same thing on basses that are more or less identical except for the NR.

 

[walterw]

i'm more inclined to suspect regular setup stuff, like one bass has slightly higher nut height than the other or the neck shape or fret size or string spread are different enough to change the overall feel.

they're both 34" scale maple bolt-on basses, i dunno that the neck behavior will be all that different, or enough to really feel in any case. exactly what kind of fender is it? if it's USA then it has graphite rods in the neck and might if anything be stiffer than the music man.

 

[bobdabilder]

Have them setup the same. Nut, string height and relief differences are what you feel.

It occurred to me whenever I switch from playing my Music Man SR5 to my Fender Jazz 5 string, that the feel of the strings on the SR5 has more "weight" to them, even though both basses have the same 45 - 125 DR Fatbeams strings on them with comparable setup.

It feels like I have lighter gauge strings on the Fender. Could this be because the SR5 is 22 frets verses 20 on the Fender, which might translate to more string tension? Or maybe it's because of that bigger bridge.

I would love to have that same string "weight" feel on the Fender without going to a heavier gauge.
Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Setup (action, relief, etc.) will affect the feel in your left hand. But it won't change anything in how your right hand feels plucking the strings. How could it?

If the strings, gauge and scale length are the same, any difference in plucking feel comes from flexing of the frame. There can be a surprising difference in stiffness between necks and bodies. Dimensions, wood choice, and internal reinforcements all play a part.

A smaller (rounder) fingerboard radius makes it easier for the right hand to pluck the strings harder, because the center strings are up higher. But that doesn't change the stiffness or snap (feel) of the strings.

 

[bobdabilder]

Not so. Higher action combined with fretting pulls the pitch and tension higher. How could it not?

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Not so. Higher action combined with fretting pulls the pitch and tension higher. How could it not?

If it pulled the tension higher, your intonation would be off. When you add the compensation at the bridge, you are adjusting it so the tension, and the tune of the note, will be correct when fretted. Assuming the same strings and scale length, when fretted at the 12th (or wherever) the tension will end up the same regardless of where the action is set...if the intonation is set correctly on both.

 

[RattleSnack]

It could be due to different picking (plucking) locations. Maybe you play Fender over the neck pickup, and Musicman over the bridge humbucker (closer to the bridge), where strings are stiffer.
Also, they sound very different, so you could be using more strength on Musicman in order to get the sound you have in your head.

 

[andruca]

Stingray 5ers have been my 5ers of reference for 20 years, due to 4 main factors: unparalleled playability mostly due to having the best 5er neck ever, aggressive and focused mix owning tone, amazingly rich and resonant sound, awesome low B. IME no Fender can resonate like an EBMM does, much less have a low B that's remotely close (except maybe the Roscoe Beck Jazz V, then again, still not comparable to SR5s in other depts). A others have mentioned, one of the most important facts about that resonance and low B tightness is stiffness. Besides wood choice, the 6 screw and increased contact patch in the neck joint of a SR5 (often overlooked) is most probably one big cause. Makes for a stiffer platform for the strings to vibrate on, thus your more tense sensation. If said platform is less stable you not only hear that dull sound from the strings but you also can definitely feel that flabbyness in your plucking/picking.

I might be seeing where the OP is coming from. I've been looking for viable Fender-ish sounding alternatives to my Ray 5ers for a decade. Problem being I don't like how Fenders play, their necks, their horrid QC, etc. So I owned many sucedanes, both cheaper and more expensive. Most 5ers don't play remotely like it, many have chunky necks or a too wide string spacing (I'm set on the SR5's 17.5mm), most wouldn't cut in a mix, some would have a terrible low B, or would simply sound like I put a blanket on the amp compared to SR5s. I even had a Sterling5 HS which both wasn't good enough at the Fender-ish game and also sounded thin at the strictly Musicman tone game. Currently I own an indo Yamaha BB-615 (P+J pickups, 3 band active) and a MIK Ibanez ATK-405 (MM+J pickups, 3 band active). Both have super thin necks and resonate/feel/play VERY alike my Stingray5s (the BB by virtue of a ramp in between pickups so I can pluck in the MM position), both are solvent at P and Jazz tones, but play way better than any Jazz I've played (only exception being CIJ Geddy Jazzes -if they made a 5er I'd already own one-), have more oomph and overal authority plus a better low B than Fenders (both on the aggressive side of the spectrum, the BB sounding more classic and the ATK being more hi-fi/modern).

Wanna get frustrated about all 5ers? Get a Stingray5.

 

[bobdabilder]

Yes and if the setups aren't the same the the tension and intonation will be off. Your keyword being "if". I relate the op's difference in feel to setup differences.

If it pulled the tension higher, your intonation would be off. When you add the compensation at the bridge, you are adjusting it so the tension, and the tune of the note, will be correct when fretted. Assuming the same strings and scale length, when fretted at the 12th (or wherever) the tension will end up the same regardless of where the action is set...if the intonation is set correctly on both.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Yes and if the setups aren't the same the the tension and intonation will be off. Your keyword being "if". I relate the op's difference in feel to setup differences.

If the intonation is approximately correct on both basses, then the tension in the strings will be the same, regardless of where the action is. Assuming again that the strings and scale length are the same. Higher action means that you'd have to press down harder with your left hand finger. But the tension in the working length of the string is the same. If it wasn't the note would be off.

And I assume that he's played around with the setup on both basses to some degree, but yet they still maintain that difference in string feel.

There are significant differences in the way the wooden frames of the two basses are made, and there is most likely a measurable difference in overall stiffness between the two. That would make the strings feel different, because of the different amount of deflection of the frame as the strings are plucked.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

One of the main features of any of the MusicMan basses is their stiffer necks and frames. That's a key reason why they have that very clear bottom end and top end. The pickups and preamps play a big part too, in capturing that sound. But the heart of the sound is in the frame stiffness.

Stingray 5ers have been my 5ers of reference for 20 years, due to 4 main factors: unparalleled playability mostly due to having the best 5er neck ever, aggressive and focused mix owning tone, amazingly rich and resonant sound, awesome low B. IME no Fender can resonate like an EBMM does, much less have a low B that's remotely close (except maybe the Roscoe Beck Jazz V, then again, still not comparable to SR5s in other depts). A others have mentioned, one of the most important facts about that resonance and low B tightness is stiffness. Besides wood choice, the 6 screw and increased contact patch in the neck joint of a SR5 (often overlooked) is most probably one big cause. Makes for a stiffer platform for the strings to vibrate on, thus your more tense sensation. If said platform is less stable you not only hear that dull sound from the strings but you also can definitely feel that flabbyness in your plucking/picking.

I might be seeing where the OP is coming from. I've been looking for viable Fender-ish sounding alternatives to my Ray 5ers for a decade. Problem being I don't like how Fenders play, their necks, their horrid QC, etc. So I owned many sucedanes, both cheaper and more expensive. Most 5ers don't play remotely like it, many have chunky necks or a too wide string spacing (I'm set on the SR5's 17.5mm), most wouldn't cut in a mix, some would have a terrible low B, or would simply sound like I put a blanket on the amp compared to SR5s. I even had a Sterling5 HS which both wasn't good enough at the Fender-ish game and also sounded thin at the strictly Musicman tone game. Currently I own an indo Yamaha BB-615 (P+J pickups, 3 band active) and a MIK Ibanez ATK-405 (MM+J pickups, 3 band active). Both have super thin necks and play/feel VERY alike my Stingray5s (the BB by virtue of a ramp in between pickups so I can pluck in the MM position), both are solvent at P and Jazz tones, but have more oomph and overal authority plus a better low B than Fenders (on the aggressive side, the BB sounding more classic and the ATK being more hi-fi/modern).

Wanna get frustrated about all 5ers? Get a Stingray5.

 

[bobdabilder]

And again: I contribute the difference in feel to setup. Two well setup basses that are the same scale length will feel extraordinarily similar regardless of frame stiffness. If is a huge word. It would take having the bass in hand to measure and test. Lots of assumptions going on in your posts. To be fair, lots going on in mine as well.

If the intonation is approximately correct on both basses, then the tension in the strings will be the same, regardless of where the action is. Assuming again that the strings and scale length are the same. Higher action means that you'd have to press down harder with your left hand finger. But the tension in the working length of the string is the same. If it wasn't the note would be off.

And I assume that he's played around with the setup on both basses to some degree, but yet they still maintain that difference in string feel.

There are significant differences in the way the wooden frames of the two basses are made, and there is most likely a measurable difference in overall stiffness between the two. That would make the strings feel different, because of the different amount of deflection of the frame as the strings are plucked.