Double Bass Adjuster Removal

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

What's all this bias against table saws? I agree that those Sears Craftsman P.O.S.'s in many dads' basements are finger eaters, but I've got a professional saw with a sliding table and lot's of jigs to hold the work properly......................................

I submit that 95+% of the table saw users on the planet have no idea about these tools you have. Without the proper jigs the bridge can only be cut by either holding a curved bridge against a straight fence or 'free handing' it through the blade. No?
All power tools can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

 

[robobass]

I submit that 95+% of the table saw users on the planet have no idea about these tools you have. Without the proper jigs the bridge can only be cut by either holding a curved bridge against a straight fence or 'free handing' it through the blade. No?
All power tools can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

I submit that 95+% might be a conservative estimate.

It's too bad, since some of the jigs I'm talking about take only seconds to prepare.

For cutting the bridge feet for example, I simply tape the flat side of the bridge to a big squared piece of 3/16 Melamine board with a specialized double-stick tape. I can then just run the board through against the fence with my hand far away from the blade. Nothing can really go wrong. Using this tape and wedges, I can make very precise cuts with pretty complicated shapes and angles. Have you seen my C-Extension thread? I did all of the string channel slotting for a double pulley extension in like an hour with only my saw. I suppose I should make an instructional video.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I get it now. Nice work on the extension.

General safety advice when working with any power tool is to think it through. If you can see any potential danger or have apprehension, don't make the cut.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

What's all this bias against table saws?

For me it's the fact that this is not a woodworking forum.
That in mind, I won't instruct less than skilled (by default) people use non-professional (also by default) tools for a job in which they may forever lose their ability to enjoy the supposed "main" intrest, in this case playing with functioning fingers.

If a rusty old 3tpi blade on a wobbly old B&D table saw is all that a person has, the mere mention of using a table-saw can trigger the idea of using that on anything. BECAUSE the wise-ones said so on the internet.

Feels like a disaster waiting to happen to me to even suggest that.


Now don't get me wrong, I've made all sorts of jigs for all sorts of tasks, also quite a few that have failed in use for a reason or another (usually because the sudden distraction and loss of consentration we all face at times while working, or hurry), but all that we active hobbyists/semi-professionals or professionals are able and willing to make, is usually well beyond the average tinkerers abilities or knowledge.

I still stand firmly behind the use of a bandsaw above other power tools when cutting the bridge.
If power tools are even needed that is .

Regards
Sam

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Really, the best advice to the OP is to take it to a professional. People who work on basses for a living have the tools and experience to do the job. What we have in this thread is a vague description of the problem, no pictures and a bunch of people giving purported solutions to a problem that hasn't been clearly defined. Gotta love the internet.

 

[robobass]

Hi.



For me it's the fact that this is not a woodworking forum.
That in mind, I won't instruct less than skilled (by default) people use non-professional (also by default) tools for a job in which they may forever lose their ability to enjoy the supposed "main" intrest, in this case playing with functioning fingers.

If a rusty old 3tpi blade on a wobbly old B&D table saw is all that a person has, the mere mention of using a table-saw can trigger the idea of using that on anything. BECAUSE the wise-ones said so on the internet.

Feels like a disaster waiting to happen to me to even suggest that.


Now don't get me wrong, I've made all sorts of jigs for all sorts of tasks, also quite a few that have failed in use for a reason or another (usually because the sudden distraction and loss of consentration we all face at times while working, or hurry), but all that we active hobbyists/semi-professionals or professionals are able and willing to make, is usually well beyond the average tinkerers abilities or knowledge.

I still stand firmly behind the use of a bandsaw above other power tools when cutting the bridge.
If power tools are even needed that is .

Regards
Sam

Very good point. Being a professional craftsman, I easily forget that "table saw" has a different meaning for me than for the laymen. Isn't it amazing that there is actually a power tool brand called "Grizzly"?

In my defense, though, a large number of the regular contributors to the "Setup & Repair" subforum are professional luthiers and knowledgeable hobbyists, and a lot of the discussion relates to how they do their work. This discussion is valuable for luthiers, who can share ideas, as well as for players who can better understand how things get done. You seem to suggest that discussion of any luthiery techniques which might be dangerous if tried by the untrained should be avoided. If we accept this premise, then perhaps Talkbass needs to shut down the subforum altogether.

 

[robobass]

... Gotta love the internet.

Well said. I think TB is clinging hopefully to a higher standard, but most forums which started with the best of intentions have degenerated to nonsense. Here is my current (invented but not untrue) example:

Home Improvement Forum

Question: One of the tabs on the plug on my desk lamp broke. I went to Howdy Do-it Big Box Hardware Store to buy a replacement plug, but there were so many choices that I couldn't decide. It's just a 40 watt halogen lamp, so I don't think I need anything special. Any special info I need? Any brands to avoid?

Answer1 from QWERT: Don't try to do this yourself! If you not a trained, licenced, union electrician, you will likely electrocute yourself, if not burn your house down. Take the lamp to a proffesional for proper, certifeid repair.

Answer2 from TZUIO: +1. Besides the danger element of installation, if you alter a UL approved electrical device and don't get approved, then there is a fire your insurance will have grounds for deny compensation.

Answer3 from Hot Boobs: HOT BOOBS!!!!! Just click on hotboobs.com.

OP: Guys, don't you think you're overdoing it a bit? I'm not an electrical engineer, but I did build a Heathkit radio when I was in high school. I think I can replace a plug on a lamp. The plugs in the hardware store, btw, do say "UL Approved". Are you sure my insurance would deny payment if they discovered the repair? Is there anyone out there who can actually address my question?

Answer4 from QWERT: Do what you want, I wash my hands. I hope your family gets burned to death when your stupid lamp catches fire.

Answer5 from TZUIO: You shouldn't say that. You imply approval of the home repair. If his house does burn down, OP and his insurance company will cme after you for damages.

Answer6 fromQWERT: Yeah, your right. I retrackt that. The guy's certainly a Nazi anyway.

Answer7 from Hot Boobs: HOT BOOBS!!!!! Just click on hotboobs.com.

Mods: I know you will take this down, but it's funny though, right?

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Isn't it amazing that there is actually a power tool brand called "Grizzly"?

Well, over here we have "Sparky", how's that for a joke .
The runt of the litter when it comes down to power tools no less.
So Grizzly is just a regular marketing department image association strategy to me.

In my defense, though, a large number of the regular contributors to the "Setup & Repair" subforum are professional luthiers and knowledgeable hobbyists, and a lot of the discussion relates to how they do their work. This discussion is valuable for luthiers, who can share ideas, as well as for players who can better understand how things gets done.

Contributors, definitely yes, but the majority of lurkers who still make about 90% of the viewers/readers on forums most likely aren't.

You seem to suggest that discussion of any luthiery techniques which might be dangerous if tried by the untrained should be avoided. If we accept this premise, then perhaps Talkbass needs to shut down the subforum altogether.

Discussion should IMO absolutely be encouraged rather than avoided, I didn't convey my thoughts clearly enough I guess.

But IMHO suggesting something just because we are able to do that or have the specialized tools to do it, without setting some standards for the said equipment, that I do avoid.
Everyone else can absolutely do whatever they feel appropriate. Obviously.
But they should also -in my humble opinion anyway- consider the average reader of these posts clueless and eager to try, and post accordingly.

Unlike in the car or MC forums (not to mention explosives forums) where following bad advice has lead to deaths, over here we may only be responsible for non life threatening injuries, but still un-necessary injuries.

And YES, I do feel that it's the responsibility of the poster, not the reader, to try to avoid potentionally harmful advice.

Regards
Sam

 

[robobass]

...

And YES, I do feel that it's the responsibility of the poster, not the reader, to try to avoid potentionally harmful advice.

Regards
Sam

I agree with this statement in principal, but where do you draw the line? Any online cooking recipe which involves an oven, hot stove top, or chopping with a chef's knife, could be considered to be giving "potentially harmful advice", and I bet more accidents happen in the kitchen than in the shop. But, we are actually allowed to read these recipes without first clicking on all kinds of disclaimers and agreements to protect liability. For now

So, I should not mention "table saw", but "band saw" would be alright? Which tools are acceptable? We should always say "Kids, don't try this at home" whenever describing any operation more dangerous than tuning or restringing? I don't see the Setup & Repair forum as viable if you introduce these constraints.

 

[gottliver]

OMG..get on track!!!!

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

OMG..get on track!!!!

The way I see it, we are .

I agree with this statement in principal, but where do you draw the line? Any online cooking recipe which involves an oven, hot stove top, or chopping with a chef's knife, could be considered to be giving "potentially harmful advice", and I bet more accidents happen in the kitchen than in the shop. But, we are actually allowed to read these recipes without first clicking on all kinds of disclaimers and agreements to protect liability. For now

I draw the line on the availability of the tool/equipment, and whether it's likely that a person who has that kind of tool/equipent in their posession, knows how to operate it safely or not.

That line should clear my opinion on the cooking analogy as well .

So, I should not mention "table saw", but "band saw" would be alright? Which tools are acceptable? We should always say "Kids, don't try this at home" whenever describing any operation more dangerous than tuning or restringing?

The situations vary from place to place, but over here table saws are very cheap and very common. Almost anyone can get their hands on one. Regardless of whether they know how to operate it or not. Or what blade to use for what job. Usually missing the knife and the blade guard (just like in mine ) no less. Band saws OTOH are very rare and expensive, took me two decades to aquire one, and people who have 'em, usually can also operate them safely.

I don't see the Setup & Repair forum as viable if you introduce these constraints.

I'd use the word consideration rather than constraint.

For every job there's the best tool for getting it done, and plenty of tools that do get the job done, only not as safely or easily.
Our views about that best tool just don't line up in this here case, that's all.

Regards
Sam

 

[tyb507]

While the answer that makes most sense and is most likely to get the best results in most of the DIY questions here is "take it to a professional luthier and have it done properly", that won't satisfy many posters of questions like this. They are maybe handy enough to figure out the job with some advice, maybe just handy enough to ruin a bridge and still have to take it to a luthier for a new one. Or proud enough to get a bridge blank and open another can of worms. It's the OP's bass (for now), and the OP will do whatever he or she wants to it. I'm that way, and I've messed things up and learned a lot in fixing both what was originally wrong with my instruments and then my mistakes (or vice versa). I'm not a professional luthier, but I do a lot of successful (and considered) work on my bass and work in a shop making violins and mandolins (in a pseudo-apprentice role). I try not to chime in with advice much because I prefer not to upset the signal to noise ratio, and I value the words of the professional bass luthiers who generously spend some time here. This is one resource I use to research when I contemplate a job on my bass. I also read books, and ask advice (and for help!!) from my maestro and other knowledgeable friends.

I added my two cents here because I've installed lots of adjusters in bridges, and thought maybe I understood what the OP was getting at (maybe not...). I run on the assumption that most people don't know how to safely and accurately use a table saw for fine work (myself included...my POS Craftsman in the basement just scares me, and I haven't turned it on in months), so I try to throw in "keep your [instrument part in question] away from your table saw!" whenever possible. Like the person a while back who had the back of their bass apart and posted pictures of "shooting" the center seam on their table saw...buy a plane! You mess things up much more slowly and safely that way. "This plate is almost perfectly flat...I'll just sneak the blade out a quarter turn and hit that corner one laaaaaaast....aw $#&%$#!!!"

Oops...did I just contribute to the noise?

 

[bassist1962]

Bridge height and overstand

 

[bassist1962]

string height G string and bridge

 

[robobass]

...
Oops...did I just contribute to the noise?

Well, to paraphrase a proverb, One man's signal is another man's noise.

I also want to apologize for my beer fueled rants from yesterday. I grew up in America, but have been away so long I'd forgotten about the devil in dad's basement. Here in Germany you pretty much only ever see a table saw in a pro cabinetry shop, and it ain't some HD P.O.S. It usually weighs like 700 lbs. So, if I recommend using this device in the future, I will be careful to define exactly what I mean. Still, a well setup saw in the proper hands can be an invaluable tool.

 

[bassist1962]

Sorry I dont have a pic of the adjuster outside of the bridge. I can say when I had it out the screw extended to the 'ear' (I think that is the correct reference) where the bridge begins to arch, not leaving any room to cut the bridge leg. The strings are Spiro weichs. If someone can tell me what my string height actually is, it would help. Also is it considered low, med or high? The set up was done almost two years ago, so it may be due to go back in anyway. At that time the original bridge was replaced due to it being severly warped. The strings were a bit higher when I got the bass back, but I that was due to the bridge being straight finally. The string height & tension has become an issue as of the last couple of months due to my being diagnosed with spinal stenosis, and I am doing whatever I can to make playing more comfortable.

 

[bassist1962]

BTW what I am looking for is this (pic borrowed from stringrepair.com - thanks Eric.) The pencil has this clearance on my bass at around 5th position - Simandl on the G.

 

[360guy]

I recommend that you take the bridge to a luthier. It looks like you have enough meat above the heart to allow for some trimming.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

John,
Looking at the second picture in post #34 it looks like the top of your bridge is pulling toward the fingerboard. The back of the bridge should be perpendicular to the top of the bass. If you pull the top of the bridge toward the tailpiece (probably 1/2" or so) until it is at a right angle to the top I think that will solve your problem. That should lower the string heights by the right amount.
IF that doesn't do it, there is plenty of leg above the adjusters to cut.

 

[Heifetzbass]

Hey Bassist1962,

If you don't mind a road trip, I would be happy to look at that for you up close and personal. Shoot me a PM.

Best,
Brian