Double Bass Adjustments after string changes

[travshorts]

Hello TB community.

I have spent a sickening amount of time recently reading through the string threads gathering opinions and gathering the sweats. sigh..

One thing that comes up pretty often is after somebody changes their brand of string they will take a trip to their luthier for some adjustments. I am curious what the thought process is behind these adjustments? Perhaps some of the more experienced luthiers could weigh in with their thoughts?

My approach after the new set is installed and the bass has had a few days to settle under the new tension has mostly been limited to making any small adjustments to the camber of the fingerboard if it has changed. On higher end instruments, this doesn't seem to be required as the wood is good and strong and thus doesn't flex that radically from how it was with the prior strings.

As for the soundpost, this to me is the larger mystery. I have always set my soundposts with no string load and just enough tension to hold them in place, usually about 18-20 mm from the back of the foot and 4-6mm in from the outside edge. I go for symmetry with the bass bar regarding how far in the starting point of the post will be. If others agree that this is a reasonable approach then how does different string tensions affect how one would go about fitting their post?

And aside from fingerboard and post adjustments, are their other areas to consider as well?

I currently work at a small independent music shop in Victoria, BC. called Larsen music. I have headed the string instrument repair there for the last 4 years. We are primarily a rental shop and I am responsible for all of the violin, cello, and double bass repair. I have been studying the art of setup and repair with Kim Tipper and have had the luck of living in town with Jim Ham who has also been very generous with his knowledge.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Huh? I've never ever taken my bass in purely because I changed the strings. I will only do so when a buzz or noise, basically a real repair issue.

Where have you seen this advice?

 

[travshorts]

Huh? I've never ever taken my bass in purely because I changed the strings. I will only do so when a buzz or noise, basically a real repair issue.

Where have you seen this advice?

It has been mentioned on quite a few string threads that some others take their basses in to their Luthiers after they have changed strings.

I'm with you, I cant' understand exactly why it would be necessary for adjustments after only changing strings. (unless there was something problematic. buzzes, nut/bridge slots) Especially if the bass was playing fine before hand. I'm guessing that maybe others have noticed that after they have changed from, for example, a high tension string to a low tension string that their bass is reacting to how it used to as far as resonance, volume, bow resistance and that there are now some adjustments to be made. The fingerboard is quite easy to see what has happened but as far as the post... I'm not sure what you would change?

 

[bassfiddlesteve]

Huh? I've never ever taken my bass in purely because I changed the strings. I will only do so when a buzz or noise, basically a real repair issue.

Same here. When I change strings I make sure the bridge isn't tilted and I sometimes change the height adjusters, but that's about it.

- Steve

 

[DoubleMIDI]

It might be necessary to widen (but never deepen!) the nut and bridge slots if you change to a different type of string with a greater diameter. If you don't widen the slots with bigger strings, the string may break after a short time or during tune up, tuning might be less smooth because the string is clamped between the sides of the slot, or you might not notice it at all ... until the string might break or not.

If you just change to the same string set or a bit heavier from the same family, there usually is no need to change anything.

Much lower tension or much more flexible strings might need a bit more distance to the fingerboard, so raising the bridge might be needed (or lowering for stiffer or higher tension strings). Generally no problem if you have an adjustable bridge.

 

[travshorts]

Maybe, perhaps, I'm forgetting that a lot of folks do not like changing their strings and a lot of it comes down to that they would rather leave it up to someone who is more experienced. I just wanted to see if there was something I was missing.

 

[MikeCanada]

I think it really depends on the string change that is happening. If you are only swapping out an old set of *insert strings of preference here* for the same, then that action alone doesn't warrant any adjustments other than making sure the bridge is still standing straight. The exception being if something happens during the process, such as removing all the strings at the same time resulting in the soundpost falling. Most of us know that isn't a bright thing to do, but I'm sure it is a mistake that happens more often than not to beginners who haven't been told to just change one at a time.

If you are switching from some high tension steel string to something low tension like guts or the other way around, I could see a few tweaks being in order. A change in string height or adjusting the nut and bridge slots might be necessary if there is a big change in gauge.

I do know a few players that really hate changing strings, and use it as an opportunity to take the bass in for a checkup. The shop changes their strings, makes sure that any repaired cracks and all seems are closed and glue if necessary, touch up any marks with a bit of varnish, etc. it's basically a "spa day" for the bass. If it is time for the fingerboard to be dressed or the shop notices anything else that is problematic, they point it out. In those situations it is more of a "my strings need changed and there are some other issues that you can address when I bring it in" instead of adjustments needed as a result of the string change.

Players have different personalities as well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it applies to a fair number of them, but some are on a constant quest for the ultimate sound their instrument can make, and like to have things tinkered with constantly. Maybe you've encountered a few more of the latter than the rest of us?

 

[travshorts]

Players have different personalities as well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it applies to a fair number of them, but some are on a constant quest for the ultimate sound their instrument can make, and like to have things tinkered with constantly. Maybe you've encountered a few more of the latter than the rest of us?

I have had my share of folks come thru the shop and have me change their strings. Like you said, a day at the spa. Make sure everything is all in place. But I have never had anyone come in and want specific adjustments to the post after the string change. That's the one that has me thinking.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of. Some people don't want to be bothered with any sort of maintenance and/or are scared of it. I remember talking to some guitar shops and they had some customers like that.

When you're in a category of instrument where people can pay 10s of thousands for an instrument, I guess you'll have a higher chance of running into folks who feel that they're entitiled to doing nothing but enjoy their instrument and not have to do any sort of work as well. Seems very rare tho.

 

[MikeCanada]

Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of. Some people don't want to be bothered with any sort of maintenance and/or are scared of it. I remember talking to some guitar shops and they had some customers like that.

When you're in a category of instrument where people can pay 10s of thousands for an instrument, I guess you'll have a higher chance of running into folks who feel that they're entitiled to doing nothing but enjoy their instrument and not have to do any sort of work as well. Seems very rare tho.

A lot of people are scared of maintenance, especially on a violin family instrument. Other than changing strings, making sure your bridge is straight, and using a clean dry rag to get off any rosin/other stuff, there really isn't a lot that someone without luthier skills can do. Almost anything else I would put in the repair category instead of maintenance as they require tools that could cause serious damage if the player isn't knowledgeable. With an electric bass there are a lot of things you can do with screw drivers and hex keys on your own, with very little risk. It is possible to over tighten/break a truss rod or strip some screws but if you screw up setting the intonation, you're no worse for wear.

I wouldn't necessarily call it entitlement to avoid working on a double bass. In many cases a double bass will be the most expensive thing that you own, short of your place of residence and potentially vehicle. Even if it is "just" a four figure price tag, taking it to the experts makes sense instead of doing something yourself that could have very expensive consequences.

While I think it is a good idea to learn a bit about your bass and bow and have a general understanding of how repairs work even if you don't perform them yourself, I much prefer things going straight to the shop than having them come in after a botched DIY job. Plenty of places will refuse to touch an instrument after someone decided that closing an open seam with gorilla glue was a good idea.

 

[bassmastan]

A lot of people are scared of maintenance, especially on a violin family instrument. Other than changing strings, making sure your bridge is straight, and using a clean dry rag to get off any rosin/other stuff, there really isn't a lot that someone without luthier skills can do. Almost anything else I would put in the repair category instead of maintenance as they require tools that could cause serious damage if the player isn't knowledgeable.

+1000 This is why I will do those few things, and touch up my basses finish (from small nicks) only because I learned how from a family secret spirit varnish and a very careful hand. Any more and I would rather pay 1 or 200 to take an hour of my luthiers time to fix it... I won't even polish my own bass, I wipe it down, but I let the professionals handle it... I am really good for their business too!

 

[Don C]

Hi Trav, the only things I do when changing strings, besides making sure the bridge is standing properly, is re lubricate the string slots with a bit of soft pencil lead. Also if the tuners need any maintenance this is a good chance. If you're going to a different tension string, then the bridge may need to be raised or lowered. I've found that the most problematic thing for me, with an extension, is that sometimes when you're going to a different gauge 4th string the extension capo needs to be adjusted somewhat. That's about it for me, I'm in the "if it aint broke, don't fix it " catagory

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I wouldn't necessarily call it entitlement to avoid working on a double bass.

I was thinking more from the perspective of an obnoxious wealthy parent whose spoilt bassist kid wanted a new set of strings. Most musicians are humble and wouldn't be that way.

Back to topic: The only legit reason why I would bring a bass to a luthier was that I was afraid of the soundpost falling down because I didn't know how to change a set of strings. Either that or I simply did not own a string winder and realize I couldn't do it right by hand.

 

[travshorts]

Hi Trav, the only things I do when changing strings, besides making sure the bridge is standing properly, is re lubricate the string slots with a bit of soft pencil lead. Also if the tuners need any maintenance this is a good chance. If you're going to a different tension string, then the bridge may need to be raised or lowered. I've found that the most problematic thing for me, with an extension, is that sometimes when you're going to a different gauge 4th string the extension capo needs to be adjusted somewhat. That's about it for me, I'm in the "if it aint broke, don't fix it " catagory

Sounds right to me. I am of the "ain't broke, don't fix" camp as well. Mostly because I have learned that once you start messing with intangibles, something else usually shows up to the party as well. But the scientist in me just can't resist from time to time.

 

[MikeCanada]

Either that or I simply did not own a string winder and realize I couldn't do it right by hand.

I felt like I had shares in D'Addario/Planet Waves for a while because of the string winders I would go through. They had an (electric... shhh) bass winder/cutter combo that was poorly designed with a weak spot where it would experience the most torque. Almost every time I used it without fail it would fail, and because they had a lifetime warranty type thing I would send it back to them, explain the design flaw that they could plainly see in the broken one, and they would send me another one. Eventually that got annoying and they didn't have any intention of fixing it, so I requested one of the cheaper but better designed just winder, and it's been fine since.

It isn't fun, but I think everyone should change a set without a string winder at least once so they realize just how much better it is with one. I tend to do my D string by hand anyway as the tuner was knocked at some point and is now very slightly bent and stiff. I curse it every time I have to change strings, but the tuning plate is a little weird and I'm guessing the keys are as well and it would bug me more having one key that didn't match the rest if I replaced it.

I am sure that you have already figured this out, but for anyone else who hasn't made the leap yet:

PSA: If you don't own one, go out and buy yourself a string winder. Your life will be greatly improved.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

When changing to strings with different tension (from steel strings to guts), is a soundpost check/adjustment warranted?

 

[Huy Nguyen]

When changing to strings with different tension (from steel strings to guts), is a soundpost check/adjustment warranted?

No. As long as you keep at least one or two strings to put tension on the table the soundpost won't move.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

PSA: If you don't own one, go out and buy yourself a string winder. Your life will be greatly improved.

Agreed. Especially one of the ones where the head of the winder has a hex shaft that attaches to a variable speed drill. Makes the whole thing flow like butta.

I don't mind changing strings but I'm superstitious about soundpost work, so much so that I've never had it done on my main bass. The bass gets tight in the summer and a little loose in the winter and I just adjust the wheels to compensate. But every time I've had a luthier move the post I've had to relearn how to play the bass to get the sound/feel I'm used to ( i.e. - fast sound with enough resistance to bite you back), so I haven't bothered since the soundpost on the main bass first found the sweet spot.

 

[travshorts]

I don't mind changing strings but I'm superstitious about soundpost work, so much so that I've never had it done on my main bass. The bass gets tight in the summer and a little loose in the winter and I just adjust the wheels to compensate. But every time I've had a luthier move the post I've had to relearn how to play the bass to get the sound/feel I'm used to ( i.e. - fast sound with enough resistance to bite you back), so I haven't bothered since the soundpost on the main bass first found the sweet spot.

This has been my experience as well. Once you find an instruments sweet spot, that's that. Maybe one could have a couple of posts for different parts of the seasons of the slightest different heights that fit basically in the exact same spot? I'm guessing that's the goal.

On Vancouver Island where I am the change in seasons is pretty minimal but I know in central parts of Canada and the US, the season changes are way more drastic. When I was living in Edmonton there was a huge shift in temp. and humidity from summer to winter. But I wasn't cutting posts yet in those days.