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Admittedly Because I am relatively new

L

LarryGK

May 7, 2021
128
101
SoCal
#1
Setting the stage here I'm a 25 year jazz trumpet player that turned to EB 2 years ago. I practice effectively a lot. I know theory, reading, gigging and building.
Started a new group playing the good R&B from 60's/70's.
Beyond the obvious answers (e.g practice more), I play sitting down. When I stand and with a good strap, of course the fret board is pointing 90 degrees from my line of sight. You know where I am going with this. I cannot see it at all. While I have learned pretty well when I sit how to "read the board" without looking a lot, this what I am describing is tough. I had this stupid thought of attaching a thick foam pad to the backside of the body so it tilts the bass in about 20 degrees and then I can see it and as importantly my fingers feel much more flexible. Yup, yup that is a band-aid (pun intended)
Thanks in advance on helpful comments.
 
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#4
WestyBassBob said:
I have to be honest I don’t understand your question. I only play standing and have no trouble seeing the fretboard.
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Depends on one's playing posture and wrist position. When playing standing, I mostly cannot see the fretboard face and have to go by the side markers.
 
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#7
kevrex said:
I'm no doctor, but I can all but guarantee that if you change the angle of your bass like that, you're going to give yourself wrist problems. I'd recommend putting some big side markers on there.
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Right thus my comment about the band aid but thx for your reminder. Yeh my side markers are fine. I will continue in between practicing my setlist to practice a segment standing but so far no bueno.....
It is as @bholder described.
 
#8
Your bass should have side markers.
1739308883658.png

You could teach yourself to use those.
 
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#10
micguy

Post in thread 'Improving the visibility of dots markers on the side of the neck'

Rocket Queen said:
@micguy?
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I play on a lot of dark stages (the singers up front get all the light), do all my basses have this on their necks:

_neck.jpeg


Some of the stages I play on, we have overhead UV lights, so these glow very well. Even without those lights, just the big area of white makes things plenty visible.

Those aren't stickers - they're paint (Rustoleum 2x stuff). The Clear coat of the finish is over the white, so it's there permanently. It takes some skill to get that to where there isn't a "bump" where the paint starts and stops, but it isn't all that hard to do.

In...
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#11
It's rare to meet a new player who doesn't go through a phase of wanting to look down the entire fretboard while they play.

The easiest answer is to adjust your strap so the bass is at the same height sitting or standing, stand up to acquire a good angle, and then stick to that whether you are sitting or standing.

The muscle memory comes with practice. Run one finger per fret exercises slowly and cleanly. Even record yourself or do it in front of a mirror so you can monitor technique without feeling like you have to stare down to your left.
 
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#12
JonathanPDX said:
It's rare to meet a new player who doesn't go through a phase of wanting to look down the entire fretboard while they play.
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This. We’ve all done it early on in our learning. Standing/sitting makes no difference. (Well, there are differences, but not really relevant to this issue.). Keep working on using the side markers only and eventually you’ll realize that the fretboard markers are for decoration only (or as a reference point for another player to see what you’re doing). I sometimes encounter other players who are somewhat lost trying to figure out what I’m playing, until I point out that it’s because I have no fretboard markers. From my point of view, it’s not a problem. ;)
 
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#14
JonathanPDX said:
It's rare to meet a new player who doesn't go through a phase of wanting to look down the entire fretboard while they play.

The easiest answer is to adjust your strap so the bass is at the same height sitting or standing, stand up to acquire a good angle, and then stick to that whether you are sitting or standing.

The muscle memory comes with practice. Run one finger per fret exercises slowly and cleanly. Even record yourself or do it in front of a mirror so you can monitor technique without feeling like you have to stare down to your left.
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Muscle memory and visual cues are not mutually exclusive. I'm in my seventh decade of playing, and my muscle memory is just fine, thank you, and I still look at the fingerboard occasionally because it works for me. Even on reading gigs, I still use muscle memory while glancing at the fingerboard. I don't know who came up with the nonsensical idea that real musicians always play without looking at their instruments, but I don't believe it's a legitimate argument.
 
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#16
Maybe practice each song both ways - 1st sitting while you get it and learn it, 2nd standing, making mistakes, but correcting them because you are learning to use the side dots as reference and ideally learning the fretboard from muscle memory. You could also try playing sitting down but closing your eyes.

Personally, I only play standing up, whether at home or with others. I have almost the exact opposite problem as you - playing sitting down messes me up! Fortunately I rarely if ever need to...
 
#18
Jazzdogg said:
Muscle memory and visual cues are not mutually exclusive. I'm in my seventh decade of playing, and my muscle memory is just fine, thank you, and I still look at the fingerboard occasionally because it works for me. Even on reading gigs, I still use muscle memory while glancing at the fingerboard. I don't know who came up with the nonsensical idea that real musicians always play without looking at their instruments, but I don't believe it's a legitimate argument.
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I never said that one should never look at the fretboard. The goal is to be able to navigate without having your eyes glued to it. And in the end it all depends on what you are playing. I've played thousands of hours of walking blues bass lines, I don't need to look at my left hand to walk a I-vi-ii-V. But if I'm transcribing a Victor Wooten solo I'm probably looking at my fretboard at some point, and so is Vic!

The difference is that beginners often have no ability to play without staring at their hand, and that's the step the OP needs to put work in to overcome.
 
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#19
OK. I started playing trumpet in 5th grade in @ 1973. I still play trumpet (well, cornet now) in another ensemble, along with playing tuba in community band, and some other instruments here and there. In 7th grade I picked up guitar and in 8th grade summer band camp I started electric bass. I have had all sorts of private and school lessons, along with tons and tons of woodshedding over the decades. I understand. Here is a summary of what I have done:
1) It's great that you know your music theory so that you can adjust for different scales and understand why chord progressions do what they do.
2) Get a good, wide, padded strap so you can angle the neck of your bass up a little bit so it is more comfortable with both hands. Otherwise you will end up like @kevrex is talking about.
3) Curve your right (picking hand) thumb a little bit under so that you finger-pick a little off the side of your index and middle fingers, like classical double bass pizzacato does, so you get a fatter tone.
4) To get the muscle memory instilled into your left hand, buy a Simandl book (yes, the one that orchestral double bassists learn on) and so you have a method to learn the positions of the notes so you start learning how to "feel" the fretboard without looking at it. Yes, you will always look occasionally, especially on a very technical bass passage. What you are aiming at is for that to be the exception. The posts by @JonathanPDX and @Jazzdogg are a good summary. Like these guys, I have been playing electric bass for decades, since the summer of 1976, and they are saying the same thing I was taught way back when. So when I played double bass for a couple of jazz bands between about 5 and 15 years ago, until arthritis set in, it was a straightforward, if not easy, transition.
5) The rest is practice and refining your classical ear training and sight reading of charts, lead sheets, learning songs, and chord progressions so you can anticipate where everything is going to lay down a solid foundation.

Now, on to the groove. As a trumpet player, you are used to the drummer cueing your entrance. As a bass player, you are integral to cueing the entrance for everybody else with the drummer. One thing I do is watch the drummer's right hand. Whenever the tip of the stick hits something, whether snare, hi-hat, ride cymbal, tom, or whatever, and that stroke is on a beat and the corresponding bass note is on the same beat, I make sure my finger is coming off the string and starting the sound at exactly the same micro-moment that the tip of the drumstick is contacting something. This requires an absolute knowledge of where you are going in the song, and what the rest of the band needs to cue an entrance, especially in transitions to get the band to the next part of the song. That makes the drum beat and your bass note simultaneous and digs the groove even deeper.
 
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