Advice for finding representation/booking agent?

[theinfamous]

Sorry if this is a question that has been beaten to death, but I'd like some real world advice from actual people about this.

My band is getting to the point where we want to start playing festivals and stepping up to the next level as far as getting outside of our local area, where we are pretty successful. We have a guy who we hired to run sound and book shows for us, and he's done a pretty great job of getting us paid more money locally and consistently, but he lacks the contacts that a real booking agent ostensibly has.

I'm admittedly clueless on this, and the internet is all over the place about opinions on the subject. That is why I came here to ask these questions:

1. In branching out regionally and nationally, does a legit booking agent have real value or is it the equal value just to have Mr. Sound guy keep handling that?

2. How can we as a band approach potential representation in a respectful and productive way? I don't want to look like an idiot or annoy anyone because we overstepped some industry rule.

3. What kinds of things should we watch out for in contracts?

4. How does it work as far as exclusivity goes? For instance, can we still book our own local shows and leave bigger responsibilities up to the agent? Will they get a cut of everything, or just the shows they book?

5. Is representation even necessary, or should we focus more on generating traffic on social media, streaming, and getting on playlists?

6. In looking at representation, is it better to have a company that represents a lot of artists, or one that has fewer?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ArtechnikA]

Just finished soundcheck on a job, so more later. The short answer is, anyone who can help you should already know who you are...

 

[getbent]

I climbed this hill about a decade ago, YMMV but a few thoughts:

1. In branching out regionally and nationally, does a legit booking agent have real value or is it the equal value just to have Mr. Sound guy keep handling that?

• A legit booking agent definitely has real value, but you need to be a demonstrable money maker. It's not an agent's job to make you a contender, you need to make yourself a contender. So you need to be booking yourself regionally and nationally (I was in a Chicago band and booked us around the Mid West and out to the East Coast multiple times, and even a Canadian festival, before we got a booking agent), and drawing decent numbers before you start approaching potential agents. The whole point of a real agent is to get better gigs, and they'll know how to negotiate it (bands tend to overvalue themselves or feel bad about charging more)

2. How can we as a band approach potential representation in a respectful and productive way?

• If you're drawing real crowds and making waves, they'll find you, they like the smell of money. But if you want to be more proactive, start talking to people about how you're looking for representation. Chat up the booking agents at whatever clubs you're playing, talk to other bands, look up who represents the bands in your area or genre you would like to emulate career-wise.

3. What kinds of things should we watch out for in contracts?

• We never had a contract with our booking agent or manager. If anyone puts a contract in front of you, have an entertainment lawyer look it over. Your friend who's a lawyer can spot some run of the mill contractual stuff, but you need someone experienced in the actual music business and knows what to look out for.

4. How does it work as far as exclusivity goes? For instance, can we still book our own local shows and leave bigger responsibilities up to the agent? Will they get a cut of everything, or just the shows they book?

• It depends/everything's negotiable. There were some local/benefit/private things our booking agent didn't concern themselves with, and even if I made the connection for a gig, I was happy to hand it off to the agent because they knew how to negotiate and get a better outcome.

5. Is representation even necessary, or should we focus more on generating traffic on social media, streaming, and getting on playlists?

• There's a lot you can do yourself, especially if you know how to schmooze people, but professional booking agents and managers are just going to have better connections for opportunities that you'd never hear about otherwise. Private events for brands come to mind. And how much do you want to focus on booking and managing the calendar? I did it for a few years until we had enough momentum to bring on the pros and I was pretty damn happy to have those duties off my plate, so I could focus on playing music. I was still the business manager and tour manager for the band, but I was happy to not have to worry about dealing with the label and the clubs.

6. In looking at representation, is it better to have a company that represents a lot of artists, or one that has fewer?

• It depends. You want someone with actual experience and a track record of some success, not your buddy who doesn't have any musical talent but still likes being "in the band". An agent or manager with multiple artists on their roster gives you more opportunities to partner up. "My big band will play your festival, but you have to take my little band as well", stuff like that.

 

[theinfamous]

I climbed this hill about a decade ago, YMMV but a few thoughts:

1. In branching out regionally and nationally, does a legit booking agent have real value or is it the equal value just to have Mr. Sound guy keep handling that?

• A legit booking agent definitely has real value, but you need to be a demonstrable money maker. It's not an agent's job to make you a contender, you need to make yourself a contender. So you need to be booking yourself regionally and nationally (I was in a Chicago band and booked us around the Mid West and out to the East Coast multiple times, and even a Canadian festival, before we got a booking agent), and drawing decent numbers before you start approaching potential agents. The whole point of a real agent is to get better gigs, and they'll know how to negotiate it (bands tend to overvalue themselves or feel bad about charging more)

2. How can we as a band approach potential representation in a respectful and productive way?

• If you're drawing real crowds and making waves, they'll find you, they like the smell of money. But if you want to be more proactive, start talking to people about how you're looking for representation. Chat up the booking agents at whatever clubs you're playing, talk to other bands, look up who represents the bands in your area or genre you would like to emulate career-wise.

3. What kinds of things should we watch out for in contracts?

• We never had a contract with our booking agent or manager. If anyone puts a contract in front of you, have an entertainment lawyer look it over. Your friend who's a lawyer can spot some run of the mill contractual stuff, but you need someone experienced in the actual music business and knows what to look out for.

4. How does it work as far as exclusivity goes? For instance, can we still book our own local shows and leave bigger responsibilities up to the agent? Will they get a cut of everything, or just the shows they book?

• It depends/everything's negotiable. There were some local/benefit/private things our booking agent didn't concern themselves with, and even if I made the connection for a gig, I was happy to hand it off to the agent because they knew how to negotiate and get a better outcome.

5. Is representation even necessary, or should we focus more on generating traffic on social media, streaming, and getting on playlists?

• There's a lot you can do yourself, especially if you know how to schmooze people, but professional booking agents and managers are just going to have better connections for opportunities that you'd never hear about otherwise. Private events for brands come to mind. And how much do you want to focus on booking and managing the calendar? I did it for a few years until we had enough momentum to bring on the pros and I was pretty damn happy to have those duties off my plate, so I could focus on playing music. I was still the business manager and tour manager for the band, but I was happy to not have to worry about dealing with the label and the clubs.

6. In looking at representation, is it better to have a company that represents a lot of artists, or one that has fewer?

• It depends. You want someone with actual experience and a track record of some success, not your buddy who doesn't have any musical talent but still likes being "in the band". An agent or manager with multiple artists on their roster gives you more opportunities to partner up. "My big band will play your festival, but you have to take my little band as well", stuff like that.

Thank you very much for your input. This is good information. So our current strategy remains valid- keep reaching out regionally until we can get a following.

I remember watching one of Fluff's YouTube videos saying that moving organically from a local act to regional to national was no longer a solid strategy, and it was better just to pay people to market to playlists on Spotify. That seems kind of greasy and an easy way to get ripped off. Any opinions on that?

 

[getbent]

moving organically from a local act to regional to national was no longer a solid strategy, and it was better just to pay people to market to playlists on Spotify. That seems kind of greasy and an easy way to get ripped off. Any opinions on that?

No experience or opinions there. My last go-round was 2013-14 and Spotify playlists weren't on our radar. We had a live show with word-of-mouth appeal and a Wilco-approved Wilco cover that opened a lot of doors for us. We were still making decent money selling CD's at the shows and the business has changed a lot since.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Remember, they have something you want - connections. You have to be able to give them what they want - a guaranteed sell out. It's not about musical talent

Why do the big bands play the biggest venues? Why does Billy Joel still have a monthly MSG gig, and why are certain grandfather's playing stadiums? Because they will easily sell out each show.

 

[ArtechnikA]

Remember, they have something you want - connections. You have to be able to give them what they want - a guaranteed sell out.

Exactly. If you are not selling out ticketed events where you live and all the surrounding states, you're probably not big enough to attract and sustain their interest.
Martin Atkins makes this point in one of his books (Band:Smart, I think...). If you're not selling out venues, you're booking rooms that are too big for you. Everybody thinks it's cool to play the 10,000-seat hall, but if you're drawing 200 people, it just looks pathetic. Which would you rather have on your EPK? "SRO in 20 cities!" or a photograph of a huge, empty hall with 200 people front and center...

 

[theinfamous]

Exactly. If you are not selling out ticketed events where you live and all the surrounding states, you're probably not big enough to attract and sustain their interest.
Martin Atkins makes this point in one of his books (Band:Smart, I think...). If you're not selling out venues, you're booking rooms that are too big for you. Everybody thinks it's cool to play the 10,000-seat hall, but if you're drawing 200 people, it just looks pathetic. Which would you rather have on your EPK? "SRO in 20 cities!" or a photograph of a huge, empty hall with 200 people front and center...

So it seems we are not even close to where we need to be for outside representation. I'm definitely seeing a need for a much more concerted marketing effort pointed at places we are playing outside our local area.

Where we are located, ticketed events for local bands are unheard of. It's just not done. As a result, I don't think we can get a realistic view of attendance numbers or even a concept of what "selling out a venue" looks like in our local market. One thing we do have going for us is that we will routinely set sales records for the bars we play at... Our fans like to drink.

Going out of our local area has been challenging, to say the least. We've gotten screwed by weather several times this spring. It's even more challenging because we are very far from major metro areas. We have to travel 6+ hours just to get somewhere most people would consider a real city.

 

[ArtechnikA]

So it seems we are not even close to where we need to be for outside representation. I'm definitely seeing a need for a much more concerted marketing effort pointed at places we are playing outside our local area.
...
Going out of our local area has been challenging, to say the least. We've gotten screwed by weather several times this spring. It's even more challenging because we are very far from major metro areas. We have to travel 6+ hours just to get somewhere most people would consider a real city.

OK, you have geographic considerations that preclude the standard-wisdom generic advice.
We're trying to help, but you've gotta work with us. Where _are_ you?

Lots of musicians seem to want to 'experience life' and make the same 'learning experience' mistakes as 1000 bands before them, but if you are of a type that doesn't consider book-learning 'too cerebral' to be useful, I seriously recommend getting Martin Atkins books "Tour:Smart" (out of print but worth the effort to find at e.g. Amazon or eBay) and "Band:Smart." These are big books packed with real-life experience but Atkins packs in enough war stories to keep it entertaining at the same time.

You need to have a deep conversation about what 'the next level' looks like, because you probably don't have the resources to do everything - or you wouldn't be asking us ;-) ... Do you have enough original material to make and sell CD's - or download cards - or something to get your music into the hands of the people who want to pay to hear it. Do you have T-shirts? IMO, you have to have "stuff" to increase revenue and brand awareness. Samantha Fish toured relentlessly as a means of selling her CD's of original music which eventually led to a record deal.

I'm assuming here, but probably in some town in your circle there is a theater company, school, firehouse, or fraternal organization with a hall. rent it and sell your own tickets. my community has a really nice little theater company with 3 venue spaces of varying sizes and prices. i looked at it but could never interest bandmates into making the step -- they'd rather make their $50 a night at a bar than put in the effort. and there is the issue of PRO's since independent theaters rarely have their own BMI/ASACP licenses -- they rely on the theater troupe to rent the rights to their productions directly from the publisher. not an issue if you're doing all originals, tho.

Once you accept the concept that any amount of promotion to get you to the next level will require some expenditure, it's a matter of getting the best value for the money. As much as we badmouth the 'pay to play' concept - and for good reason - objectively there may be a case to be made that the promotional value outweighs the cost. if you can make the business case for this, and not just the vanity value of 'we played the Whiskey on Sunset' you may have to consider it. I'm told but have no real-world experience that this is fairly common in the metal world. If you want to play the big events with the big names, you will have to buy your way onto the tour.

Get your music on the streaming services. Yeah, you're getting $0.003 a play, but you can reach Iceland and Uganda which you maybe couldn't otherwise. Get your CD's out to every radio station in your genre -- you don't have a record label to to this for you. Once you know where you're getting airplay, you can plan your tours into the markets ready for what you're selling.

 

[two fingers]

Roughly, where are you, geographically speaking? That will make a difference in the answers to your questions. And people from that area can chime in to help out.

So it seems we are not even close to where we need to be for outside representation. I'm definitely seeing a need for a much more concerted marketing effort pointed at places we are playing outside our local area.

Where we are located, ticketed events for local bands are unheard of. It's just not done. As a result, I don't think we can get a realistic view of attendance numbers or even a concept of what "selling out a venue" looks like in our local market. One thing we do have going for us is that we will routinely set sales records for the bars we play at... Our fans like to drink.

Going out of our local area has been challenging, to say the least. We've gotten screwed by weather several times this spring. It's even more challenging because we are very far from major metro areas. We have to travel 6+ hours just to get somewhere most people would consider a real city.

 

[theinfamous]

Roughly, where are you, geographically speaking? That will make a difference in the answers to your questions. And people from that area can chime in to help out.

Western South Dakota. Not the band that was on NBC, but we are good friends with those guys. Hahaha....

OK, you have geographic considerations that preclude the standard-wisdom generic advice.
We're trying to help, but you've gotta work with us. Where _are_ you?

Lots of musicians seem to want to 'experience life' and make the same 'learning experience' mistakes as 1000 bands before them, but if you are of a type that doesn't consider book-learning 'too cerebral' to be useful, I seriously recommend getting Martin Atkins books "Tour:Smart" (out of print but worth the effort to find at e.g. Amazon or eBay) and "Band:Smart." These are big books packed with real-life experience but Atkins packs in enough war stories to keep it entertaining at the same time.

You need to have a deep conversation about what 'the next level' looks like, because you probably don't have the resources to do everything - or you wouldn't be asking us ;-) ... Do you have enough original material to make and sell CD's - or download cards - or something to get your music into the hands of the people who want to pay to hear it. Do you have T-shirts? IMO, you have to have "stuff" to increase revenue and brand awareness. Samantha Fish toured relentlessly as a means of selling her CD's of original music which eventually led to a record deal.

I'm assuming here, but probably in some town in your circle there is a theater company, school, firehouse, or fraternal organization with a hall. rent it and sell your own tickets. my community has a really nice little theater company with 3 venue spaces of varying sizes and prices. i looked at it but could never interest bandmates into making the step -- they'd rather make their $50 a night at a bar than put in the effort. and there is the issue of PRO's since independent theaters rarely have their own BMI/ASACP licenses -- they rely on the theater troupe to rent the rights to their productions directly from the publisher. not an issue if you're doing all originals, tho.

Once you accept the concept that any amount of promotion to get you to the next level will require some expenditure, it's a matter of getting the best value for the money. As much as we badmouth the 'pay to play' concept - and for good reason - objectively there may be a case to be made that the promotional value outweighs the cost. if you can make the business case for this, and not just the vanity value of 'we played the Whiskey on Sunset' you may have to consider it. I'm told but have no real-world experience that this is fairly common in the metal world. If you want to play the big events with the big names, you will have to buy your way onto the tour.

Get your music on the streaming services. Yeah, you're getting $0.003 a play, but you can reach Iceland and Uganda which you maybe couldn't otherwise. Get your CD's out to every radio station in your genre -- you don't have a record label to to this for you. Once you know where you're getting airplay, you can plan your tours into the markets ready for what you're selling.

Thanks for the literature suggestions! I'll have to check those out. I have zero interest in making the same mistakes others have made. That's partially why I've asked for advice here.

The pay to play thing really rubs me the wrong way, but I see the value if we could get on with the right act.

We have an album on streaming services, but it's not the current lineup of the band, and we've come a long way in sound and presentation since then. It's still a decent marketable product in my opinion, and we still play most of those songs, but we have definitely evolved. We have an EP's worth of new songs almost ready to release, (mostly they just need a little polish and to be mastered) and I'm putting pressure on the rest of the band to get them ready by the end of the summer or before. I want to release them one by one because I've heard that works better for visibility on Spotify. I'm open to other opinions on that though.

Like I said, ticketed shows for local bands aren't really done around here. We've done it a few times, once for a private party (which went fine, but wasn't anything game-changing) and once again at a bar that was trying to cover our guarantee, which we didn't recommend, and it didn't go over well. Bands around here, for better or worse, have gotten in a situation where we can't charge a cover because patrons expect live music to be free. To change that, every local band would have to start charging covers, and I just don't see that happening. That's a whole can of worms that I have mixed feelings about. If our band started doing exclusively ticketed shows, I'm nervous that a large part of our revenue stream would disappear and we'd only be able to play locally once every couple months maximum. It's a tough situation to weigh out. Definitely a gamble.

Our merch is solid. We sell a ton of hats and shirts. That's something we are extremely thankful for.

I hit up several radio stations in 2019 with intentions of following up in 2020 for travel, but we all know how that turned out. It would no doubt be prudent to revisit that strategy.

Incidentally, I also know a guy who toured with Samantha Fish for a while.

 

[buldog5151bass]

If there was a nearby band that was on national television, try to get on bills with them now, while people may be looking.

 

[rodv66]

Interesting thread. My original band has a deal, CD for sale, on streaming formats and a list of reviews. Most of them are positive. Now, we need representation. We have never played live as a group, so it's a strange situation. We are in the Philly area and trying to figure out what the next step is.

 

[theinfamous]

If there was a nearby band that was on national television, try to get on bills with them now, while people may be looking.

That's something we want to make happen. It's a situation right now where both of our bands are booked for a few months out, and we don't have much room in our schedules. We've opened for them before, but that was before America's Song contest.

Interesting thread. My original band has a deal, CD for sale, on streaming formats and a list of reviews. Most of them are positive. Now, we need representation. We have never played live as a group, so it's a strange situation. We are in the Philly area and trying to figure out what the next step is.

That is an interesting pickle you find yourself in. If it were me, I'd try to get as much YouTube content as possible that is solid proof of what you want your live show to look like.

 

[rodv66]

That's something we want to make happen. It's a situation right now where both of our bands are booked for a few months out, and we don't have much room in our schedules. We've opened for them before, but that was before America's Song contest.



That is an interesting pickle you find yourself in. If it were me, I'd try to get as much YouTube content as possible that is solid proof of what you want your live show to look like.

Yeah we have a lyric vid and a teaser vid. We may have to make a studio one as well, but that's out of our pocket. The others were part of the promo pack that Rockshots records put together. Here's one of the videos they made.

 

[surfguitar]

3. What kinds of things should we watch out for in contracts?

I highly recommend all musicians seeking booking or label contracts read John Fogerty's book, Fortunate Son: My Life My Music' before signing anything.



]

 

[Runnerman]

I have used 3 different local booking agencies over the years and to be honest all 3 have been a disappointment.
In the end they are there to make money not really promote you for your future success...you need to remember that. So they will act on your behalf only to the extent that they can profit.

2 of the agents had the keys to booking at certain venues/bars... so to play there you have to have the relationship with them. Every once in a while we still get a call from either one of them to see if we can fill a slot. Usually as the newest band on their list you will be given short notice cancellation gigs at the beginning. Also you will be given bad dates like holiday weekends where everyone is at the beach...including your usual following.

The other agent I would say was a more "legit" representative agent. We had interviews with him to talk about future goals, etc. There was a contract involved. He had moved to the area from NYC and was restarting in NC and building his client base. At the end of the day, we never signed the contract, from what I recall there wasn't agreement within the band. The guy has since left the area so it was probably the right decision.

I will say this, an agent will not be able to promote a non-promotable band...ie: one that doesn't want to promote themselves. They are not going to be some solution to your popularity if that's what you are looking for. You have to earn that yourself in my experience.

 

[LBS-bass]

Booking agents aren't managers, and vice versa, so it's not realistic to expect your agent do to anything more for you than put you into rooms that are looking for bands. If you want someone to plot out your future and develop strategies for success, you probably need a manager.

The problem I've always had with agents is that they control your relationship with the venue forever and ever. If you book into a room through an agent and do well there, you are not free to connect with that venue on your own to book the next show. You are forever (or at least for the duration of your contract) indebted to the agent for the percentage they take for introducing you into that venue.

I've seen many an up and coming artist drop their agency contracts for this reason; you need the agent to get you into rooms but if you are successful you really don't need them forever- or you might need an agent with better contacts to improve the rooms you play.

Just like anything else in life, there's a strategy there.

 

[silky smoove]

I want to release them one by one because I've heard that works better for visibility on Spotify.

It helps in regards to showing a higher quantity and frequency of releases but ultimately it's down to how effectively you can market those releases. The real goal for streaming services is to advertise yourself effectively enough to get placed on big name playlists. That's where you'll see actual growth in your streams count. Sending it out to your family and friends will get you a hundred or so plays, which is effectively the same as not being on a streaming service. An old project of mine got placed on a fairly large YouTube Music playlist and it was generating around 8,000 streams of our single per day whereas our Spotify and Apply Music streams of that same single are still less than a 1,000 and not yet quantified. That YouTube Music playlist eventually went stale and people stopped streaming it and our stream count dried up before having it get noticed by bigger and more wide-reaching playlists across multiple platforms. It takes a lot of work in advertising yourself effectively to get picked up by such a playlist, but it can be worth it in terms of getting your name out to a wider audience, even if you won't make much, if any money from it.

My general business show band (covers) has an agent and they offer us more gigs than we can handle, and at this point we only book the high dollar ones they offer. If we were an original act that same agent wouldn't touch us. Finding the right agent is key. What kind of band are you describing? Originals? Covers? Genre?

 

[theinfamous]

It helps in regards to showing a higher quantity and frequency of releases but ultimately it's down to how effectively you can market those releases. The real goal for streaming services is to advertise yourself effectively enough to get placed on big name playlists. That's where you'll see actual growth in your streams count. Sending it out to your family and friends will get you a hundred or so plays, which is effectively the same as not being on a streaming service. An old project of mine got placed on a fairly large YouTube Music playlist and it was generating around 8,000 streams of our single per day whereas our Spotify and Apply Music streams of that same single are still less than a 1,000 and not yet quantified. That YouTube Music playlist eventually went stale and people stopped streaming it and our stream count dried up before having it get noticed by bigger and more wide-reaching playlists across multiple platforms. It takes a lot of work in advertising yourself effectively to get picked up by such a playlist, but it can be worth it in terms of getting your name out to a wider audience, even if you won't make much, if any money from it.

My general business show band (covers) has an agent and they offer us more gigs than we can handle, and at this point we only book the high dollar ones they offer. If we were an original act that same agent wouldn't touch us. Finding the right agent is key. What kind of band are you describing? Originals? Covers? Genre?

We're reggae/rock. Think 311, Bumpin Uglies, or Sublime. Kind of. We play some covers, but that's in order to appeal to the bar/street dance crowd. Aside from that, we are basically an original band, and we've got enough material to play probably about 90 minutes of just our stuff.

In my mind, stream counts are simply to use for leverage to book better rooms for better rates. I don't have any illusions about generating meaningful revenue from that. So marketing to playlists is a priority in that regard.

Booking agents aren't managers, and vice versa, so it's not realistic to expect your agent do to anything more for you than put you into rooms that are looking for bands. If you want someone to plot out your future and develop strategies for success, you probably need a manager.

The problem I've always had with agents is that they control your relationship with the venue forever and ever. If you book into a room through an agent and do well there, you are not free to connect with that venue on your own to book the next show. You are forever (or at least for the duration of your contract) indebted to the agent for the percentage they take for introducing you into that venue.

I've seen many an up and coming artist drop their agency contracts for this reason; you need the agent to get you into rooms but if you are successful you really don't need them forever- or you might need an agent with better contacts to improve the rooms you play.

Just like anything else in life, there's a strategy there.

This is such good info. Thanks to everyone who has contributed!

The impetus for a booking agent is to get in contact with the right people who book festivals at this point, because getting anyone to respond from even mid-tier festivals is like shouting into an empty coffee can and expecting a philosophical answer to the meaning of life.

We've played rooms that are allegedly connected to the people who book red rocks and reggae rise up, but it predictably hasn't lead to much yet.

I have used 3 different local booking agencies over the years and to be honest all 3 have been a disappointment.
In the end they are there to make money not really promote you for your future success...you need to remember that. So they will act on your behalf only to the extent that they can profit.

2 of the agents had the keys to booking at certain venues/bars... so to play there you have to have the relationship with them. Every once in a while we still get a call from either one of them to see if we can fill a slot. Usually as the newest band on their list you will be given short notice cancellation gigs at the beginning. Also you will be given bad dates like holiday weekends where everyone is at the beach...including your usual following.

The other agent I would say was a more "legit" representative agent. We had interviews with him to talk about future goals, etc. There was a contract involved. He had moved to the area from NYC and was restarting in NC and building his client base. At the end of the day, we never signed the contract, from what I recall there wasn't agreement within the band. The guy has since left the area so it was probably the right decision.

I will say this, an agent will not be able to promote a non-promotable band...ie: one that doesn't want to promote themselves. They are not going to be some solution to your popularity if that's what you are looking for. You have to earn that yourself in my experience.

There's a local booking agency that seems to have similar results to what you're describing. I'm not trying to talk smack or anything, because they've done pretty well booking a few of the bands they represent, but it seems like they have their sights more set on the street dance scene. (which can be lucrative, but it's not entirely what we're going for) They also run a bar that is exactly how you described it too. Do we know each other??? Haha... We've gotten some off night bookings there and have had a real tepid response every time, despite having a rocking crowd about twenty minutes away in a few different venues many times.

This business is so darn screwy. We have the destination we want, it's just real hard to figure out the turns along the way.