Dismiss Notice

Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Advice for Sound Cutting Through

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by cola_klinks, Jun 8, 2005.


  1. cola_klinks

    cola_klinks

    May 29, 2005
    Okay, so I picked up a Ampeg PR-410HLF and a GK 1001 RB II. I played at home and at jam --metal music. I REALLY REALLY dig the sound of the rig when I'm playing on my own, but with two guitars in a matress walled room the sound isn't cutting through. When I turn up, just the rumbles coma through and it eventually starts to fart. The bass is too loud, but the sound doesn't cut through. Any advice on turning up the sound without the volume and rumble. Would new pick-ups help...is it because it is matress walls. I have enough power...please help.
     
  2. popinfresh

    popinfresh

    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    In a band setting, you need to take bass out of your EQ (can be a little, or quite a bit) and the rest is all about mids!
    In a band setting, I like to set my EQ with bass flat, mids boosted a few notches and treble closer to bass than mids.

    Of course, it all depends on your cabinet as well, the HLF cabs can get pretty muddy/boomy. So lots of mids/treble with small amounts of bass may be in order.

    The downside to this is you won't get that exact tone you have on your own, but you WILL cut through. It's all about learning how to EQ to a room. Start with your settings flat, and work from there.
     
  3. TheChariot

    TheChariot

    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA
    Take your time before you blow money away.

    Just EQ your head a little bit. Lower the bass a tad, and increase your mids and highs a little more.

    Better yet... just set every EQ setting flat, and start from scratch. If you cant get a tone that you can at least MODERATELY use out of a GK head an Ampeg PR.... then you just have your settings a little doofy, that's all. Take some time and work at it.
     
  4. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Boost your mids at about 750 hz, cut bass to zero, then bring it back up until it just fills out the sound a little. Forget smiley-face EQ or bottom-heavy at gigs.
     
  5. cola_klinks

    cola_klinks

    May 29, 2005
    I'm so impatient...that's the main problem. I will definately start flat. I think the trouble is I started everything mid and went from there. Of course after reading your guys posts I understand there was way too much bass, boost and gain. I should have really starting finding a sound with the band instead of on my own.

    I'd like to find a sound that I can use at all volumes without getting too boomy and I think your suggestions will helps. The D & G cut through okay...just okay, but the A & E are just rumbles. I don't dig in any more up there I just think the EQ is off. Thanks again, you guys are always really helpful.
     
  6. cola_klinks

    cola_klinks

    May 29, 2005
    It all seems so simple now...the bass just sounds so good cranked, but it doesn't cut through. I've just started playing again, so I'm relearning all the tricks.
     
  7. TheChariot

    TheChariot

    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA

    Yep... that's the jist of it pretty much.

    The smiley-face, for some reason, is just a recipe for failure with almost all EQ situations for bass. I suspect its just something Guitar Center jockey's are trained to mutter when they're pretending to know what they're talking about.
     
  8. cola_klinks

    cola_klinks

    May 29, 2005
    So I should basically create a frown...it is metal after all.
     
  9. Tash

    Tash

    Feb 13, 2005
    Bel Air Maryland
    Smiley face sounds great...when you are by yourself. It also can work well under certain guitar tones in the studio.

    But playing live you need mids. Also isn't that cab rated for 8ohms? If so you might want to try apiring it with another cab to get the full output from your head. 200 watts isn't a huge difference, but it'll help you project a bit more.
     
  10. cola_klinks

    cola_klinks

    May 29, 2005
    Yes, the smiley face is great playing by yourself...but I do enough playing with myself without the bass.

    The PR-410HLF is defiantely rated 4 ohms. I get enough power. Thanks for the input.
     
  11. cola_klinks

    cola_klinks

    May 29, 2005
    Any suggestions for the Bi-Amp output?

    Boost
    Tweeter
    Woofer
     
  12. PhilMan99

    PhilMan99

    Jul 18, 2003
    US, Maryland
    A bit of explaination for the "turn down the bass EQ comments"...
    ...the human ear responds differently to different a) frequencies and b) volume levels. There are graphs of this in audio papers/books, but basically, at quiet volumes, the human ear is most responsive to the mid-range frequencies (same as human voice). In a quiet setting, you need to boost both BASS and TREBLE for a good sound. Ears are pretty cool - supposedly, you can hear vibrations as small as a single hydrogen atom!

    Anyway, at higher volumes (around 85dB), the responsiveness of the human ear becomes more "flat".

    If you look at the electrical "amplitude" (peak-to-peak) of your bass signal (any signal actually), you'll find that the relationship between signal-strength (as displayed on an oscilliscope) and the perceived "loudness" is not linear. Ears have their own way of doing things...

    Unrelated-------------
    You may also find the reverberation of the room a factor. I practice in a very *DEAD* room, and we have trouble "hearing ourselves".
     
  13. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses, Hipshot products
    Just in case - "flat" means no cut or boost - the mid point on a control. It might be what you're considering "mid". You can go lower in the bass frequencies but I've always found it to start missing something. A decent amp and bass should allow you to crank the bass a bit without distorting. I usually have the bass controls on any amp I use at around 6, and then I crank the mids accordingly.

    I'm surprided nobody's mentioned that that the lack of cut factor may very well be coming from your bass. What are you playing? IME Ibanez basses, and a lot of the cheaper basses from a while back don't cut for crap. I even had a Warwick for a while that would get farty before it would cut through in loud situations. Musicman is known for it's ability to cut, and when I first bough my Sterling it was as if the skies had opened up to me. They're real mid heavy basses. I won't even start blabbin about the basses mentioned below - but as far as mid potential and cutting through the mix, I never played a bass that's done a better job.
     
  14. Tash

    Tash

    Feb 13, 2005
    Bel Air Maryland
    You can use the bi-amp mode on a GK cab. It uses a seperate 50watt power amp to drive only the horn. Its not the same as more traditional biamp systems (like the SVT4 or the older GK800RB) where you have two seperate power amps and a crossover between them.

    Check the back panel, there may be a switch to go between biamp and full range, since you're running into a non GK cab make sure you are in full range mode.
     
  15. wyleeboxer

    wyleeboxer Supporting Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    Orange County, CA
    This is a great topic for newbies and vets! After years of trial and error I’ve gone from scooped to pushed mids with less bass. This of course is for live situations, for the most part. In the studio it seems like a whole other animal. Does anyone here have a general rule for in the studio EQing? I plan on going back in the studio with my band soon to do a full length album. Usually I use my G&L ASAT direct, any bass settings or amp suggestions for a real punchy, cut through sound?

    Thanks, as usual.
     
  16. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    You don't want a general "frown", what you need to do is find one frequency that is not occupied by other instruments and boost there. This is where a parmetric EQ really shines, but even if you just have a 4 or 5 band EQ, start from flat and boost one mid frequency band at a time until you find your slot. Often there is room around 200 hz and again in the 800hz range, which are totally different sounds. When you've got that much sound you have to find your sonic space.
     
  17. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Record nearly flat then "fix it in the mix" :D Once everything is laid down you can go back and mess with a parametric until you get it dialed in just right. If you do a bunch of EQ when you lay the track down, you are somewhat stuck.
     
  18. wyleeboxer

    wyleeboxer Supporting Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    Orange County, CA
    Great advise Pickles! Im also thinking about recording with my ASAT bass set at bridge PUP only in series mode and roll the highs off as needed. Woundering if this would help get a more low mid tone and less sooped sound that I seem to get when I record with both PUP's on?
     
  19. pickles

    pickles Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Absolutely use just the P (always a good start to a good sound on tape), but leave the tone control all the way up. The tone control only subtracts sound, and you can do the same thing in the mix IF you want to. I bet you'll keep those highs.

    Pickup blend is the one thing you can't change later, so make sure you like the basic sound of just the P in rehersals before you commit to it. If you want some J blended in you'd have to retrack :(


    edit: whups I thought you said neck pickup. I'll stand by the advice of trying the neck pickup only :D
     
  20. cola_klinks

    cola_klinks

    May 29, 2005
    So when setting the EQ for jamming/live shows, should the tone control on the pickups always be cranked, or should I leave it flat? Thanks.