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Advice for upgrading my studio

citizenchris099

citizenchris099

Jan 23, 2012
557
709
46
Dallas, TX
#1
So I'm looking to upgrade my studio a bit to facilitate achieving warmer (more vintage?) bass guitar tone.
I'm currently rocking a GK MB115. I've done some miking of the cab...but tbh this just isn't a practical solution for me. The volumes needed to avoid having to add too much gain at the pre-amp are just impractical for me.
I've recently been using the DI out of the amp. Typically post EQ and then adding a cab sim in my D.A.W. (Reason 10)
For the most part this seems to work and sounds pretty good. Though lately I've been wanting that old school sound. Maybe its the sound of a valve / tube amp or maybe a really good Mic Pre...I just am not sure.
  • I've entertained the notion of getting a Tube Amp head and using a load box to record it. Then cab sim like i've been doing or even adding something like a Torpedo Live load box which has a few more cab / mic sim options.
  • I've also considered something like a BAE 1073, Acme Motown DI or Warm Audio Tone Beast. Going direct like they did at Motown then EQ, process a tad in my DAW and call it a day.

What do you guys think?
 
#3
If you're actually looking for the sound of the old school sound, then plugins are the way to go. You can have the sound of a room packed full of vintage equipment for the price of one amp.

If what you want is the fun of messing around with all the knobs and switches on an old piece of equipment then you have to decide on which option seems like the most fun for you. Because we can't tell you which one you will enjoy more.

You're going to be processing it in your DAW anyway so you can make whatever piece of equipment you buy sound good to your ears. You can make whatever piece of equipment you buy sound like a totally different piece of equipment if you want to.
 
#6
guts said:
If you're actually looking for the sound of the old school sound, then plugins are the way to go. You can have the sound of a room packed full of vintage equipment for the price of one amp.

If what you want is the fun of messing around with all the knobs and switches on an old piece of equipment then you have to decide on which option seems like the most fun for you. Because we can't tell you which one you will enjoy more.

You're going to be processing it in your DAW anyway so you can make whatever piece of equipment you buy sound good to your ears. You can make whatever piece of equipment you buy sound like a totally different piece of equipment if you want to.
Click to expand...

I will have the most fun w/a tube amp I think...thanks man.
 
#9
JKos said:
Both of those seem rather dated (no updates in 3+ years?). Are there other ones out there?

- John
Click to expand...

Plug-ins don't really need constant updates, they aren't phone apps. I've used these and many others, so I can find a use for any old plug-in whether or not it's free or something $$$ from UAD.

Just go buy something from iRig or something? Maybe you don't have the time or inclination, or lack experience, to experiment.
 
#11
JKos said:
It's not that they may not work. It's that techniques for modeling the nonlinearities of analog circuits keeps progressing. Like the difference between a Line 6 POD and a Helix.

- John
Click to expand...

Sure, but nothing I posted above should sound like their 'modeling of non-linearities' are completely out of date. :cigar:

I still use the frickin' VST/DX of Quadrafuzz for cryin' out loud. Stacked with some other type of amp or speaker sim and it sounds great. OP just needs to experiment.
 
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#12
citizenchris099 said:
So I'm looking to upgrade my studio a bit to facilitate achieving warmer (more vintage?) bass guitar tone.
I'm currently rocking a GK MB115. I've done some miking of the cab...but tbh this just isn't a practical solution for me. The volumes needed to avoid having to add too much gain at the pre-amp are just impractical for me.
I've recently been using the DI out of the amp. Typically post EQ and then adding a cab sim in my D.A.W. (Reason 10)
For the most part this seems to work and sounds pretty good. Though lately I've been wanting that old school sound. Maybe its the sound of a valve / tube amp or maybe a really good Mic Pre...I just am not sure.
  • I've entertained the notion of getting a Tube Amp head and using a load box to record it. Then cab sim like i've been doing or even adding something like a Torpedo Live load box which has a few more cab / mic sim options.
  • I've also considered something like a BAE 1073, Acme Motown DI or Warm Audio Tone Beast. Going direct like they did at Motown then EQ, process a tad in my DAW and call it a day.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...



I also play guitar, I started on that after piano and clarinet.

There are a bunch of "guitar based" combo tube processors and effects units.

I like the Digitech's Twin Tube for not only bass but sweetening vocals. Most of the tube based units are pretty good and have some useful effects.
 
#13
I guess I just want to be outside the box as much as possible. Its not a rational decision...its just how I feel. I'm a software engineer in my day job...i don't want to mess w/software when I'm being creative. Or I'd like to limit it as much as possible.
 
#14
[QUOTE="citizenchris099, post: 22506829, member: 212205"... Though lately I've been wanting that old school sound."[/QUOTE]

There are as many variations on "old school sound" as there are combinations of bassists and recording studios in their time(s). James Jamerson? Carol Kaye? Joe Osborne? Jerry Jemmott? Duck Dunn?

All "old school" yet different in their sounds. And just to take one - Jamerson - he was recorded direct into the board, despite what you hear about his B-15N. His sound came from dead, heavy flatwound strings and his "claw." Carol Kaye used a pick and sometimes played through a guitar amp, although I'll bet she just followed whatever method the engineer wanted. My point is that whatever old-school sound you prefer is more likely to be found in approach and technique than in gear. Sure, you can experiment with instruments and strings, but other than that, it's mostly up to your brain and your hands.
 
#15
I've been seeking my perfect recorded sound for bass guitar for a long time and I believe I've finally achieved it just recently.

I sold a bunch of gear I wasn't using in order to finance an A Designs REDDI tube pre. It's designed to emulate the sound of a vintage Ampeg B-15 and I think they totally nailed it. When I record, I plug into the REDDI and then straight I to my DAW. I do use additional plugins for effects and processing, but the DI provides a solid foundation for my ideal recorded bass sound.

At $775, it isnt cheap, but I think it's well worth the money and I can't imagine not having it, now.
 
#16
What is your budget. There are a lot of ways to skin this cat. Perhaps the most versatile if it fits your budget is to buy a Universal Audio Apollo Twin. You can get one starting at $700 but the $900 duo is a nice buy and if you have an existing relationship with a Sweetwater or Musician’s friend guy you can save at least $100 or so. That is going to give you instant access to:

1. Amazing pre amp, EQ and compression plugs that are the best models of the most legendary gear - 1073 pre, 1176 compression, pultec eq.
2. Great sounding pres an D/I that can utilize those plugins like nothing else can.
3. A great ampeg unison simulation plug in that will give you a great tube bass amp tone if that’s really what you want.

Another way would be to buy a world class pre to amplify you D/I. Something like a 1073 clone, great river, Pacifica, etc. I generally wouldn’t buy a tube pre amp because they are much more limited in sound and while you may think that’s the sound of old school classics, it’s not. 1073 and API are, and those are not tubes. This would be the next most versatile way, as everything else you mic up will also sound better as well. Expect to spend at least $500 for a nice, used 1073 clone. Could easily spend $1000 on a single channel high quality pre.

The next way would be to buy a new d/I. The Reddi is great but a luxury item in a studio not already filled with top gear. I haven’t owned one but have used one. I do own a JDI and an Avalon U5. The JDI is my favorite, followed by the DI on my Genzler head. The only reason I still own the Avalon is because I haven’t gotten around to selling it yet. It’s not bad, just not worth $500 to me. This is a fairly limited way to improve your bass sound, but if you go the JDI route it won’t break the bank.

Final way would be to buy an Alembic bass pre amp. This is the secret sauce that gives Roger Waters and ever David Gilmour their silky smooth guitar tones. You can get single channel ones, but they used the two channel pre and fed the output of channel 1 and fed it into channel 2. Expect to spend at least a grand, and this is probably the least versatile (but maybe coolest) way of improving your bass tones.

At the end of the day if you have a bad interface with bad mic pre’s, that will still mitigate the positive effects of spending 750 on a Reddi or $1000 on a new amp or preamp. That’s why I would put my money into the interface or mic pre. They both will improve way more than just bass sound.
 
#18
citizenchris099 said:
  • I've also considered something like a BAE 1073, Acme Motown DI or Warm Audio Tone Beast. Going direct like they did at Motown then EQ, process a tad in my DAW and call it a day.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
THIS!
In my experience using outboard gear makes much more sense than bass amps. You should consider a compressor, too. Like the Warm Audio WA76 or the Klerkteknik or Golden Age ones. Or a clone of the LA2A or LA3A. IMO a compressor with transformers makes a bigger difference than a mic-preamp. Or a combination of a high quality transformer based DI (like the Neve RNDI) with a compressor. But you still need something that brings the bass or DI signal to Line level for these compressors.
I own the WA76, the Tonebeast, a Golden Age Pre73DLX and the Neve RNDI.
An option I use a lot of the times is the RNDI with a Cali76 Deluxe Bass compressor in front and then I go direct into the mic input of one of my interfaces. These don't have inserts, so it is kind of a cheaper version without the need for an outboard mic-preamp.
Esp. when recording I prefer this to every bass amp I ever owned.
 
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#19
DirkP said:
THIS!
In my experience using outboard gear makes much more sense than bass amps. You should consider a compressor, too. Like the Warm Audio WA76 or the Klerkteknik or Golden Age ones. Or a clone of the LA2A or LA3A. IMO a compressor with transformers makes a bigger difference than a mic-preamp. Or a combination of a high quality transformer based DI (like the Neve RNDI) with a compressor. But you still need something that brings the bass or DI signal to Line level for these compressors.
I own the WA76, the Tonebeast, a Golden Age Pre73DLX and the Neve RNDI.
An option I use a lot of the times is the RNDI with a Cali76 Deluxe Bass compressor in front and then I go direct into the mic input of one of my interfaces. These don't have inserts, so it is kind of a cheaper version without the need for an outboard mic-preamp.
Esp. when recording I prefer this to every bass amp I ever owned.
Click to expand...

Thanks man
 

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