Advice on body building (not pumping iron)

[Bruce Johnson]

Thanks. Option 3 was my first thoughts. But I started thinking about the other 2 options, mainly because it removes the possibility of messing up the neck pocket. But the more I have thought about it, the more I have gone back to thinking option 3 is probably better.

Option 1 will be the least amount of work, if you use good technique. Basically rout some cavities in the areas that you want to patch, cut and fit some wood blocks to fit in the cavities. Epoxy them in, level the blocks with the top surface. Then recut your new cavities and holes. If the gaps around the wood plug blocks are fully filled with epoxy, they will be invisible under the paint.

Option 2 is a lot of work, unless you have a lot of specialty machines and fixtures to help you. After you fit and glue on the new top, you have to recut the neck cavity and the whole perimeter, in addition cutting the new pickup cavities. Option 2 is about the same amount of work as Option 3, making a whole new body from scratch.

Option 3 is the best choice if you also want to change the shape of the perimeter. You can glue in patch blocks to change the perimeter, but that's some work too.

 

[DeanGallberry]

Can't help much with tools, I do everything by hand... scroll saw, hand drill, files, chisels, and lots of sandpaper.

I'm open to different methods. I'm just looking at what I've already got, rather that buying things I may not use much after making a couple of bass bodies. I definitely need to buy a rasp/file or two, after seeing a few videos on YT.

 

[DeanGallberry]

Option 1 will be the least amount of work, if you use good technique. Basically rout some cavities in the areas that you want to patch, cut and fit some wood blocks to fit in the cavities. Epoxy them in, level the blocks with the top surface. Then recut your new cavities and holes. If the gaps around the wood plug blocks are fully filled with epoxy, they will be invisible under the paint.

Option 2 is a lot of work, unless you have a lot of specialty machines and fixtures to help you. After you fit and glue on the new top, you have to recut the neck cavity and the whole perimeter, in addition cutting the new pickup cavities. Option 2 is about the same amount of work as Option 3, making a whole new body from scratch.

Option 3 is the best choice if you also want to change the shape of the perimeter. You can glue in patch blocks to change the perimeter, but that's some work too.

Thanks. Some great points in there. It all leads back to option 3 being the sensible choice. Especially as messing up on option 1 or 2 would mean that I'd have to go with option 3 anyway. Leaving the original body as it is, also means I have something to fall back on if I should completely fail.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I’d start with the jigsaw. Cut as close to the outline as you can without having the blade wander inside the perimeter. Don’t forget the bottom of the blade can deflect from where the top of the blade is. Use relief cuts at the waist and cutaways if needed. Then use a pattern bit in the router and a template to finish the body perimeter. If you leave much outside of the body outline you’ll need to practice taking a minimum off in multiple passes. Don’t just hog off a bunch of wood all at once. The quality of the jigsaw will make a difference. For the longest time I had the world’s third worst jigsaw (I’m sure there were at least 2 that were worse but I can’t imagine how or where) and I wouldn’t have trusted it for anything. I inherited a nice DeWalt on my work truck and that works quite well. It might even cut out a body blank with minimal deflection.

Get some decent but not overly fancy or expensive wood to start with.

 

[NedRyerson]

MDF and plywood are both way cheaper than body blanks, so any mess ups in design (remember: what looks good in your head and on paper don't necessarily translate to good function in real life once it exists) can be scrapped and restarted.

Once you have a satisfactory shape in MDF or plywood -- both in aesthetics and function -- you now have a template that you can use to guide the work on real wood.

Circular saw, jig saw, and router are plenty to get started. Circular saw to trim down the big chunks (both in the template material and the workpiece), jig saw for the fine trimming, and router to get the last mile/KM. For pickup and control cavities, you might want to consider buying a pre-made set of templates for those, especially as a first-timer (and then make copies of those in MDF or plywood, both for more routing practice as well as saving the originals to make more templates when they eventually get worn out and damaged).

You'll also need a power drill (a drill press would be better, but if you don't have one, a power hand drill will do) and a few forstner bits to make things easier on the router for cavities.

And for your first body blank, get basswood. It's a bit softer and easier to work with and is much less expensive (and it doesn't deserve the reputation it has as "garbage wood for cheap entry-level instruments that nobody should take seriously"). On a first project, that success is often the high that we all need in our learning journey. Don't just leap to the super exotic woods.

You'll learn what to do but more importantly, what NOT to do.

 

[DeanGallberry]

MDF and plywood are both way cheaper than body blanks, so any mess ups in design (remember: what looks good in your head and on paper don't necessarily translate to good function in real life once it exists) can be scrapped and restarted.

Once you have a satisfactory shape in MDF or plywood -- both in aesthetics and function -- you now have a template that you can use to guide the work on real wood.

Circular saw, jig saw, and router are plenty to get started. Circular saw to trim down the big chunks (both in the template material and the workpiece), jig saw for the fine trimming, and router to get the last mile/KM. For pickup and control cavities, you might want to consider buying a pre-made set of templates for those, especially as a first-timer (and then make copies of those in MDF or plywood, both for more routing practice as well as saving the originals to make more templates when they eventually get worn out and damaged).

You'll also need a power drill (a drill press would be better, but if you don't have one, a power hand drill will do) and a few forstner bits to make things easier on the router for cavities.

And for your first body blank, get basswood. It's a bit softer and easier to work with and is much less expensive (and it doesn't deserve the reputation it has as "garbage wood for cheap entry-level instruments that nobody should take seriously"). On a first project, that success is often the high that we all need in our learning journey. Don't just leap to the super exotic woods.

You'll learn what to do but more importantly, what NOT to do.

Thanks.

I already have plenty of MDF to make templates with and plenty of 2x4 to use for a few bodies, so I'll see how that goes before buying the final wood for a body or two.

The original body shape is okay, so I'm not planning on straying too far, but appreciate it still needs careful thought and planning.

If I could get some reasonably priced templates for the pickup and control cavities I would do so, but I'd be looking at around £150 which seems a lot for something I will only use a few times. So I'll make some myself and see how well they work on a practice body.

I have a decent hand drill and a set of 15mm-35mm forstner bits.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

I already have plenty of MDF to make templates with...If I could get some reasonably priced templates for the pickup and control cavities I would do so, but I'd be looking at around £150 which seems a lot for something I will only use a few times. So I'll make some myself and see how well they work on a practice body.

There are some good posts on here about several different easy ways to make templates that fit accurately for neck pockets and pickups. With simple rectangles and a router bit that matches the radius hotgluing scraps down around the object and then using that to route a couple of MDF tempates is common. Some use it direct on the guitar, but if it's not a pure one off, the copying step is useful for the next one, and spares you from potential glue failure on the glued-up template when routing. If the radius is tighter than your bit, drill the corners first with the right-sized drill bit, then rout, then clean up with a chisel. Jazz pickups should be pre-drilled for the half-circles (and corners if need be) then routed as a simple rectangle.
MPU Brown bass

WBO - Burst five headless fanned fret

"The Bondo trick" is another popular one. Good for things like matching a slightly curved neck heel when making a pocket, or wild & curvy pickups.
First Build - Australian Firewood 5 String

Winter Build Off 2022 - The Crook

Control cavity you're just going to pick a shape and make it, mostly, but again, there's plenty of examples to draw on and ideas to "borrow" posted here on that subject, too.

 

[DeanGallberry]

I’d start with the jigsaw. Cut as close to the outline as you can without having the blade wander inside the perimeter. Don’t forget the bottom of the blade can deflect from where the top of the blade is. Use relief cuts at the waist and cutaways if needed. Then use a pattern bit in the router and a template to finish the body perimeter. If you leave much outside of the body outline you’ll need to practice taking a minimum off in multiple passes. Don’t just hog off a bunch of wood all at once. The quality of the jigsaw will make a difference. For the longest time I had the world’s third worst jigsaw (I’m sure there were at least 2 that were worse but I can’t imagine how or where) and I wouldn’t have trusted it for anything. I inherited a nice DeWalt on my work truck and that works quite well. It might even cut out a body blank with minimal deflection.

Get some decent but not overly fancy or expensive wood to start with.

The jigsaw I have was £50 around 10 years ago and, although I don't expect it will be all that great, I still need to learn how to use it properly. It was the bottom of the blade wandering that was the issue I had before. So I guess cutting slower will improve things, but I expect attaching it to a workbench and having a blade guide on an arm is likely to help a lot.

 

[DeanGallberry]

There are some good posts on here about several different easy ways to make templates that fit accurately for neck pockets and pickups. With simple rectangles and a router bit that matches the radius hotgluing scraps down around the object and then using that to route a couple of MDF tempates is common. Some use it direct on the guitar, but if it's not a pure one off, the copying step is useful for the next one, and spares you from potential glue failure on the glued-up template when routing. If the radius is tighter than your bit, drill the corners first with the right-sized drill bit, then rout, then clean up with a chisel. Jazz pickups should be pre-drilled for the half-circles (and corners if need be) then routed as a simple rectangle.
MPU Brown bass

WBO - Burst five headless fanned fret

"The Bondo trick" is another popular one. Good for things like matching a slightly curved neck heel when making a pocket, or wild & curvy pickups.
First Build - Australian Firewood 5 String

Winter Build Off 2022 - The Crook

Control cavity you're just going to pick a shape and make it, mostly, but again, there's plenty of examples to draw on and ideas to "borrow" posted here on that subject, too.

Some more great points and thanks for bringing those threads to my attention. I had seen the MPU Brown Bass thread, which was very intersting. There's so much to go through on here, I really need to find more time to look deeper and not get side-tracked.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

The search function is useful (particularly since it can limit to this sub-forum, or a particular thread), and the sidetracks are often worthwhile, so enjoy learning from them, too.

While occasional attempts have been made to generate a canonical thread on a particular subject, there's still plenty of stuff (or better ways, different approaches, etc.) that just comes up in someone's build thread.

 

[DeanGallberry]

The search function is useful (particularly since it can limit to this sub-forum, or a particular thread), and the sidetracks are often worthwhile, so enjoy learning from them, too.

While occasional attempts have been made to generated a canonical thread on a particular subject, there's still plenty of stuff (or better ways, different approaches, etc.) that just comes up in someone's build thread.

Sometimes I just don't know what to search for. I was looking for information on neck bolt inserts which I remember seeing many months ago, but not been able to locate the thread (or threads).

As the neck will be off and on a fair few times, with a practice body or two before possibly a final body (which may also be improved upon at some point further down the road), would it be a good idea to install some from the start.

I'm sure I saw that someone had designed a really good system for doing this, but I think it might have to be installed when the neck is assembled, rather than retro-fit, but I just can't remember or find it now.

 

[DeanGallberry]

I found it, or at least one of them.

Guitar and Bass Neck Threaded Inserts

 

[T_Bone_TL]

You're probably thinking of what we call "Bruce Bars" for the "built-in" system.

Threaded Inserts

Jon retrofit some in the WBO, but it's a bit more fiddly than installing normal inserts:

WBO-2023 : Neuromancer

 

[DeanGallberry]

You're probably thinking of what we call "Bruce Bars" for the "built-in" system.

Threaded Inserts

Jon retrofit some in the WBO, but it's a bit more fiddly than installing normal inserts:

WBO-2023 : Neuromancer

Yes, Bruce Bars, that was the other thread, thanks.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Yes, Bruce Bars, that was the other thread, thanks.

I can vouch for the Bruce Bars too. I've put them in about a thousand guitar and bass necks......

 

[Videojunkie]

The SCP - Single Cut P-Bass

These are the ones I made in my build.