Advice on multi cab rig and comment made by Youtuber

[red_rhino]

I was just thinking that getting a mix, like a 2x10 and a 1x15 would give me a broader spectrum of frequencies.

That concept has no particular basis in fact.

Agreed. Perhaps a better reasoning would be differences in the voicing of 210 vs a 1x15. There's a lot of folks using the Mesa Subway 210 + 115 stack who love that combo. Two different flavors of awesome that seem to compliment each other when used together, while also having applications when used separately. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

 

[AdamR]

It most likely does do 4ohms. His won't do 2. For that set up, he needs to be able to safely run at 2.7 ohm

sorry, I meant 2ohms. edited.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm looking at a new rig for both practising and gigging. Something like:

• Markbass Little Mark 800
• Markbass 104 HF (8Ohms / 400w)
• Markbass 102 or a 151 (8Ohms / 400w)

Now there's this guy who has a setup similar to this:


But at 12:00 he mentions that the split of power to the two cabs would be even (400w to each) and that would be a problem. this is because the two 10 inch speakers in the 102 would be getting more power individually than the four 10 inch speakers in the 104.

Is that actually an issue though? Seeing as the 102 is rated at 400W shouldn't this be fine, albeit slightly annoying that they aren't consistently balanced? I don't think the 210 is going to get damaged, or will it?

He mentions that his engineer friend made him an impedance increaser cable for the 102. I'd consider getting something like this if I could see them online.

That said, I see a lot of duel cab rigs of all sorts of configurations so I this "problem" that the Youtuber mentions would be very common if that was the case. Maybe the issue is that these are all ten inch speakers, i.e. would a 4x10 and a 1x15 cab pose the same problem?

He's absolutely right about the speakers in the 410 getting twice as much power as the speakers in the 210. To balance this type of a setup, some folks buy a 410 in 4 ohm and 210 in 8 ohm. This gives you the same amount of power at all speakers but the power is 200-watts per speaker instead of the 100-watts per speaker he's aiming for. The caveat with a "balanced" system like that is your amp has to be able to handle a 2.67 ohm load or you can wreck your amp in the attempt.

But there's really more to at play here. It's not necessarily a bad thing for the the speakers in the 410 to get half the power because you have twice the speakers in it. If you were running the same amount of power into each cab, Doubling the number speakers (four in the 410 compared to two in the 210) gives you an increase of 3db in volume (SPL) over the 210 @ 8Ω. Doubling the power of an 8Ω cab also gives it an SPL increase of 3db over half that amount of power delivered into the same cab (or at least close to it).

Sot because there are twice the number of speakers in the 410, the 410 will put out the same amount of volume that the 210 will. The 210 gets their SPL boost from twice the power, the 410 gets its 3db SPL from twice the speakers and the end result is that each cab puts out (theoretically) the same SPL although speakers in the 210 are working twice as hard to do so. That's the reason that the 210+410 works so well where you need them work if your 210 can handle the power.

If your 410 is a 4 ohm box instead of an 8 ohm box, then the speakers in the 410 will get the same amount of power as the ones in your 210. Since you have 4 speakers in the 410, that cab will of course be louder than the 210, but the overall effect is that you get an even louder result with all the speakers working equally as hard. The fly in the ointment is that your amp has to be able to handle a 2.67 ohm load. If it can't then you don't have that option of running both a 4Ω and an 8Ω cab at the same time.

I also have a 410+210 stack, both are 8Ω cabs but I have never used them both together. I originally bought the DNS-410 by DNA back in 2015 and used it everywhere. I get told to turn down at Festivals if I move the master on my 800-watt amp more than a smidge over 10 o'clock when using it because it was too loud. At small venues though, I was often forced to use a backline that more often than not was a 112 combo. So in 2019 when I was accepted to the DNA Endorsing Artist Program, I bought the DNS-210. Nobody even looks sideways at a bassist bringing in a 210 cab. But my DNS-210 will handle 700-watts rms and produces a max SPL of 134db. I use an Eden amp bridged at 800-watts to drive it and use my DNS-210 in all indoor venues, reserving my DNS-410 (handles 1400-watts rms and produces a max SPL of 137db) for outdoor venues and Festivals.

I did stack them both together at one gig but only plugged in the 210, which was on top. It was an "almost large" venue where I would normally use my 410. And, since I get told at Festivals to turn down my DNS-410 , I knew I could unplug the 210 and plug in the 410 in seconds if I needed to. The 210 was more than enough and I actually had to reposition our PA mains and my cabs as far left as I could because it was killing my ears. It was a corner stage and I was on the stage left corner of it with the cab almost at ear level and only about 3-ft away...that HURT!

I have a DNA-800 amp hopefully on its way this week and I could run both of them together with that sending each cab up to 400-watts and I might try it some time just to say I did. Here's a shot of my 610 stack under my Eden WT500/800 amp.

 

[Slevage]

Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm looking at a new rig for both practising and gigging. Something like:

• Markbass Little Mark 800
• Markbass 104 HF (8Ohms / 400w)
• Markbass 102 or a 151 (8Ohms / 400w)

Now there's this guy who has a setup similar to this:



He mentions that his engineer friend made him an impedance increaser cable for the 102. I'd consider getting something like this if I could see them online.

A cable that wires two cabinets in series will increase the impedance of the total load. If this cable puts an inductor or resistor in series, it's a waste of power that just produces heat. I'd like to see the cable's components and construction.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

That thought had crossed my mind. Getting two 2x10s is an option of consider.

Getting two 210's is a good option. No chance for phase cancellation and they always work well together. Then if a 210 will do, you just bring your 210. If you're playing a large venue or outdoors, you bring your second one with you and you have a 410. I would be looking at an 800-watt amp to do that with two cabs to give you the greatest versatility if you are limited to a 4 ohm minimum load.

I was just thinking that getting a mix, like a 2x10 and a 1x15 would give me a broader spectrum of frequencies.

Not necessarily. With some of the top-of-the-line cab makers, their 210 cab gives you the lowest of the lows and their 15" one doesn't. So be sure to check that out.

I've gigged with a 212 cab in the 60's, toured with a 215 cab in the 70's, a 115 in the 90's, a 115+212 in the 2000's, a 410 in the 2000's, a 410+212 in the 2000's, a 410 with a 115 in the late 2000's through the start of 2015, then just a 410 (DNS-410 by DNA) which was louder clearer and better than anything else, then in 2018 two 112 cabs using one for small and two for mediums sized venues, and now my DNS-210 since 2019 and DNS-410 although not really both at the same time. One or the other not both at once although I did stack them both once but only used the 210. So lots of different cabs, speaker sizes, and brands.

What you really get with a 115 is a different character to the sound you produce. 10" speakers move and relax quicker than 15" speakers do. So you typically get tighter, punchier sound out of 10" speakers than you do 15" speakers. 15's can still have punch but not really like you get from the 10's. They also have a rounder perhaps as crisp of a sound to them If you want to add that sound to the punch of the 10's, a 12" will do it somewhat and a 15" absolutely will. Running a cab with 10's in it along with a 15 in another cab can often lead to phase cancellation because the speakers are moving at different rates if the designer hasn't designed them specifically to be used together. Not so much a problem with same brand cabs but can cause problems when mixing brands.

I wouldn't really recommend a 210+115 unless you know what sound they make together and want that particular sound. You need to play them together with your amp and your bass to really know how they sound together. The 210+210 or 210+410 are no brain'ers really, depending upon how loud you need to get. One of the combinations that sounded really good with the Eden cabs was a D210XST with a D410XLT cab. All the Eden cabs were designed to be used with each other and deal with challenges of mixing speakers sizes as are all the DNA cabs and Mesa cabs, and probably most of the best brand names. Odds are you won't really have to worry about buying different speakers to cover different frequencies, but rather be more concerned about buying the cabs to get the character of the sound you want.

 

[JohnnyBottom]

"Getting two identical 210's is a popular rig and solves all of these issues"
This ^^^^^
Stack em vertically and burn down the house.
I have a 4 ohm RevSound 210 which is huge sounding, adding a 8ohm RevSound 110 .
Light weight Soloed or Stacked I have Max flexibility and all the power i will need.

 

[Killing Floor]

Stop thinking in terms of Watts and Ohms and consider Joules-Second and Siemens. You'll get better low end and your midrange won't honk.

 

[bobdabilder]

I bet that thing pounds

Different cabs can bring different characteristics and sometimes play nice together. My current favorite rig uses a 2x12 with a 2x10. The 2x10 adds punch and articulation. In this case I have a separate volume control for the 2x10 which is helpful. If they were both 8 ohm cabs instead of 4 I would probably do without the extra amp.

View attachment 4265412

 

[alaskaleftybass]

That thought had crossed my mind. Getting two 2x10s is an option of consider.

I was just thinking that getting a mix, like a 2x10 and a 1x15 would give me a broader spectrum of frequencies.

You should be able to get almost any spectrum of tone you need out of two 10's. A great thing about the 210 cabs is you can stack them vertically and bring the bass close to your ears. Coupling two pairs of 210's will give you a decent amount of volume and body.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Thanks, i was also considering the possibility of a 2x10 and a 1x15. Ideally I want a two cab setup so that I can take the smaller of the two to practices and use both cabs at gigs.

Do you think an 800w amp would be overkill for the MarkBass 2x10 and 1x15 pairing which are both 8Ohms and 400w cabs? I see this cab setup a lot but usually with the Little Mark II or III 500w amp.

The reason I'm leaning more towards 800w is that this is my current setup:

RM500 EVOII Head (RM-500-EVO-II-Head)
RM-210T-EVO II (RM-210T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)
RM-115T-EVO II (RM-115T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)

I just don't find using one of these cabs is loud enough in a practice (they're 8Ohms so only 250w of power is getting sent to the cab from the 500w amp) and for gigs it's also too quiet with both cabs, which is crazy as I'm supposedly using the full 500w!?

Obviously the cheaper lightweight Rootmaster series of cabs must play a factor in this. But just for context, for 15 years I used to have an Ashdown 410 and 300w MAG head and that sounded louder than my current dual cab setup with 500w amp. I thought I was doing myself a favour by switching to lightweight, but clearly not.

Or, they do make stereo amps. I'm not sure if MarkBass has one, mine are Eden and they are stereo. I have 2 different 210 Eden cabs one is rated at 350 watts, the other is rated at 500. They are both 8 Ohm cabs, but have different frequency ranges. The two cabs paired is a 4 Ohm load to the amp which maximizes to power potential from the amp, the balance knob is adjusted to limit the amount of wattage to the 350 watt cab to prevent speaker failure.

In the event I only need on cab, some stereo amps have the ability to bridge the output (Eden WT and WTP series have this feature), and I just use my cab rated at 500 watts. I never have issues hearing myself playing in a 12 member horn band with just the one cab. I only use both cabs playing outdoors or extremely large indoor venues.

One last thing, My Eden gear is not lightweight by today's standard. That said, Eden stereo heads are going to be in the 25-30lbs range which is not a ridiculous amount of weight. Considering what you are trying to accomplish with your preferred cabs, I think an Eden stereo head would work well.

 

[Spectre Gunner]

Take a look at the Epifani D.I.S.T cabs. They are dual impedance cabs that are made to accept either 4 or 8 Ohms. The speakers are made with two voice coils. An 8 Ohm coil and a 4 Ohm coil with a switch to select either ohm rating. I have an Epifani 1000w amp and a D.I.S.T 2x10 cab plus a 1x12 cab. I was hesitant to go with this system but spoke with an Epifani rep before buying the second cab and he assured me they would be fine together. He was right and they do work well together. I have the option of take one or the other or both to a gig. I don't have an issue of one over-powering the other and the system is very clean and sounds great. I like a clean amp/cab system and I use pedals if I want something other than clean. They are lightweight with the neo magnets and they do cost more than most but I think it's worth it in the long run.

 

[808State]

Yeah its just easier to use a pair of matching 8 ohm cabs.

When guys are talking about 2x10 and 4x10 the overall
output of the 4x10 will be higher. So its easier to blow the 2x10.

But as far as the sensitivity of a 2x10 and 1x15 like planned.
The output is roughly the same.

The amazing benefit of doing so....not sure

Just use a pair of cabs to make a 2x15 or a 4x10

Its better to have 8 ohm cabs so when you run the stack its a normal 4 ohms

When guys think a single 8 ohm cab " wont give them enough power"
It gets silly.

The max SPL of a single cab with a single speaker will be the same regardless.
A " 400 watt" cabinet will probably fart out around 200 watts

So any basic head these days will be fine.
You either run one cab for a situation, and if you need more SPL
just use the other cab for a normal 4 ohm stack.

 

[Mike Marshall]

That thought had crossed my mind. Getting two 2x10s is an option of consider.

I was just thinking that getting a mix, like a 2x10 and a 1x15 would give me a broader spectrum of frequencies.

I used a 1-15 and two tens for a number of years it worked great it's about moving air, you just need to be aware of the weaker cabinet. I believe the cabinet or cabinets for bass are the critical element for tone and volume. Some cabinets sound great in a store yet on stage with a band get lost, go by your ears. I love a folded horn 18 it's a large heavy cabinet but it moves a lot of air and projects like no other yet not practical for most people. Also remember that what you hear up close and what someone 20 or 30 feet away hears is much louder you may be very surprised what one cabinet can do.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

Different cabs can bring different characteristics and sometimes play nice together.

I agree. One of my current rigs is a Little Mark III running a 2x10 and 1x15. I like the sound better than two of either, and I sometimes take one or the other for smaller needs depending on which voice I want that day.

 

[chris_b]

. . . . at 12:00 he mentions that the split of power to the two cabs would be even (400w to each) and that would be a problem. this is because the two 10 inch speakers in the 102 would be getting more power individually than the four 10 inch speakers in the 104.

It isn't a problem, if you understand the issue.

You don't run the rig to the limitations of the larger cab. You keep within the limits of the smaller cab. So nothing gets damaged if you are running the rig to the limitations of the 210. As both cabs are rated at 400 watts, I'm not sure there is a problem anyway. I don't know anyone who would sound good running any amp flat out, so I'd guess your rig would be safe on 50% of the volume and still sound good and loud enough. I run my 800 watt on half master volume and I can get very loud. I'd forget fancy cables.

From your choices, the 610 would be my preferred rig. The extra drivers will push the volume up. You get a rehearsal 210, a gigging 410 and a 610 for louder gigs.

 

[Slevage]

Or, they do make stereo amps. I'm not sure if MarkBass has one, mine are Eden and they are stereo. I have 2 different 210 Eden cabs one is rated at 350 watts, the other is rated at 500. They are both 8 Ohm cabs, but have different frequency ranges. The two cabs paired is a 4 Ohm load to the amp which maximizes to power potential from the amp, the balance knob is adjusted to limit the amount of wattage to the 350 watt cab to prevent speaker failure.

In the event I only need on cab, some stereo amps have the ability to bridge the output (Eden WT and WTP series have this feature), and I just use my cab rated at 500 watts. I never have issues hearing myself playing in a 12 member horn band with just the one cab. I only use both cabs playing outdoors or extremely large indoor venues.

One last thing, My Eden gear is not lightweight by today's standard. That said, Eden stereo heads are going to be in the 25-30lbs range which is not a ridiculous amount of weight. Considering what you are trying to accomplish with your preferred cabs, I think an Eden stereo head would work well.

If you are running two 8 ohm cabinets off two sides of a stereo amp, each side of the amp "sees" 8 ohms because the cabinets are not in parallel.
However, balancing the volume of each side of the amp is a good idea.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

If you are running two 8 ohm cabinets off two sides of a stereo amp, each side of the amp "sees" 8 ohms because the cabinets are not in parallel.
However, balancing the volume of each side of the amp is a good idea.

Thanks for the correction.