Advice on multi cab rig and comment made by Youtuber

[MrFlibble]

Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm looking at a new rig for both practising and gigging. Something like:

• Markbass Little Mark 800
• Markbass 104 HF (8Ohms / 400w)
• Markbass 102 or a 151 (8Ohms / 400w)

Now there's this guy who has a setup similar to this:


But at 12:00 he mentions that the split of power to the two cabs would be even (400w to each) and that would be a problem. this is because the two 10 inch speakers in the 102 would be getting more power individually than the four 10 inch speakers in the 104.

Is that actually an issue though? Seeing as the 102 is rated at 400W shouldn't this be fine, albeit slightly annoying that they aren't consistently balanced? I don't think the 210 is going to get damaged, or will it?

He mentions that his engineer friend made him an impedance increaser cable for the 102. I'd consider getting something like this if I could see them online.

That said, I see a lot of duel cab rigs of all sorts of configurations so I this "problem" that the Youtuber mentions would be very common if that was the case. Maybe the issue is that these are all ten inch speakers, i.e. would a 4x10 and a 1x15 cab pose the same problem?

 

[lomo]

He is correct. If each cab is rated at 8 Ohms, then the power will go 1/2 to each cab, and the 10s in the 210 will get fed twice as much power as those in the 410. This would not be an optimal pairing. It would "work", as long as you listened carefully to the 210 and did not push it past its' limit. But what would be the point?....may as well use just the 410 and push it harder. The 210 would not add much. It'd be better to pair 2 cabs with very similar or (optimally) identical power handling capability. In most cases, a 210/115 combination will provide a better power distribution per driver (again, assuming both rated at 8 Ohms). A 410/115 would pose a similar problem/ not be optimal/but would "work" and is often used out in the real world. Ask yourself it you'll actually need/use more volume than a 410 will provide. For many (most?) players in 2021, a high quality 410 pushed into its' sweet zone (but not overly burdened) will provide ample volume for most any situation. If you're one who'll need/want more, then I'd look at a company like Mesa, which makes heads that are stable below 4 Ohms which will provide more flexibility, and maybe a 4 Ohm 210/ 8 Ohm 410 (total rig impedance 2.7 Ohms-NOT doable with a Markbass head), or a pair of 410s.

 

[MrFlibble]

Thanks, i was also considering the possibility of a 2x10 and a 1x15. Ideally I want a two cab setup so that I can take the smaller of the two to practices and use both cabs at gigs.

Do you think an 800w amp would be overkill for the MarkBass 2x10 and 1x15 pairing which are both 8Ohms and 400w cabs? I see this cab setup a lot but usually with the Little Mark II or III 500w amp.

The reason I'm leaning more towards 800w is that this is my current setup:

RM500 EVOII Head (RM-500-EVO-II-Head)
RM-210T-EVO II (RM-210T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)
RM-115T-EVO II (RM-115T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)

I just don't find using one of these cabs is loud enough in a practice (they're 8Ohms so only 250w of power is getting sent to the cab from the 500w amp) and for gigs it's also too quiet with both cabs, which is crazy as I'm supposedly using the full 500w!?

Obviously the cheaper lightweight Rootmaster series of cabs must play a factor in this. But just for context, for 15 years I used to have an Ashdown 410 and 300w MAG head and that sounded louder than my current dual cab setup with 500w amp. I thought I was doing myself a favour by switching to lightweight, but clearly not.

 

[el murdoque]

Why not go for identical cabs?

What do you expect from mixing a 210 with a 115?

Just play both and decide which you like better and then get two of that one.

 

[MrFlibble]

Why not go for identical cabs?

What do you expect from mixing a 210 with a 115?

Just play both and decide which you like better and then get two of that one.

That thought had crossed my mind. Getting two 2x10s is an option of consider.

I was just thinking that getting a mix, like a 2x10 and a 1x15 would give me a broader spectrum of frequencies.

 

[Redbrangus]

I was just thinking that getting a mix, like a 2x10 and a 1x15 would give me a broader spectrum of frequencies.

That concept has no particular basis in fact.

 

[Funk With Me]

Consider two 2x12 cabs. GK makes an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm 2x12 now. Two of those and you will be heard. It will sound good too.

 

[Funk With Me]

That concept has no particular basis in fact.

Different cabs can bring different characteristics and sometimes play nice together. My current favorite rig uses a 2x12 with a 2x10. The 2x10 adds punch and articulation. In this case I have a separate volume control for the 2x10 which is helpful. If they were both 8 ohm cabs instead of 4 I would probably do without the extra amp.

 

[Wicked G]

Thanks, i was also considering the possibility of a 2x10 and a 1x15. Ideally I want a two cab setup so that I can take the smaller of the two to practices and use both cabs at gigs.

Do you think an 800w amp would be overkill for the MarkBass 2x10 and 1x15 pairing which are both 8Ohms and 400w cabs? I see this cab setup a lot but usually with the Little Mark II or III 500w amp.

The reason I'm leaning more towards 800w is that this is my current setup:

RM500 EVOII Head (RM-500-EVO-II-Head)
RM-210T-EVO II (RM-210T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)
RM-115T-EVO II (RM-115T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)

I just don't find using one of these cabs is loud enough in a practice (they're 8Ohms so only 250w of power is getting sent to the cab from the 500w amp) and for gigs it's also too quiet with both cabs, which is crazy as I'm supposedly using the full 500w!?

Obviously the cheaper lightweight Rootmaster series of cabs must play a factor in this. But just for context, for 15 years I used to have an Ashdown 410 and 300w MAG head and that sounded louder than my current dual cab setup with 500w amp. I thought I was doing myself a favour by switching to lightweight, but clearly not.

The Rootmaster 500 is a very loud head, but the cabs are not all that great. I would still try the head while going to different cabs. Actually most any cabs will sound better and louder than the RM series. Sorry but that is my experience with them. The GK NEO 212's listed above would work great with that head.

 

[lomo]

If I were in the OP's shoes I'd get a 4 Ohm 212, an 8 Ohm 112 and a head that is stable at 2 Ohms. This would provide 3 rigs of varying sizes, excellent dispersion in a vertical stack that'd be super easy to hear because the 3rd 12 would be high/ close to ear level.....or if using Mesa cabs that are designed to mix driver sizes in friendly fashion, a 4 Ohm 212/ 8 Ohm 210, or 4 Ohm 212 and 8 Ohm 115.

 

[MrFlibble]

The Rootmaster 500 is a very loud head, but the cabs are not all that great. I would still try the head while going to different cabs. Actually most any cabs will sound better and louder than the RM series. Sorry but that is my experience with them. The GK NEO 212's listed above would work great with that head.

Thanks. I have tried the RM500 through an Ashdown 410 (8ohms) in a practice studio near me and it seemed quiet too, but I suppose that was because it was only getting 250w.

I have also tried the RM800 on the same 410 cab and that was decently loud, which suggests 400w is good enough for me.

Maybe, I'll keep the RM500 and get some decent cabs that are rated at least 400w and 8ohms. That way if i later decide to upgrade to an 800w head I don't have to change the cabs again.

 

[MrFlibble]

If I were in the OP's shoes I'd get a 4 Ohm 212, an 8 Ohm 112 and a head that is stable at 2 Ohms. This would provide 3 rigs of varying sizes, excellent dispersion in a vertical stack that'd be super easy to hear because the 3rd 12 would be high/ close to ear level.....or if using Mesa cabs that are designed to mix driver sizes in friendly fashion, a 4 Ohm 212/ 8 Ohm 210, or 4 Ohm 212 and 8 Ohm 115.

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know any good brands that make heads that can handle 2ohms?

 

[AdamR]

If you run a 4ohm 410 amd an 8ohm 210, all speakers will recieve equal power

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm looking at a new rig for both practising and gigging. Something like:

• Markbass Little Mark 800
• Markbass 104 HF (8Ohms / 400w)
• Markbass 102 or a 151 (8Ohms / 400w)

Now there's this guy who has a setup similar to this:


But at 12:00 he mentions that the split of power to the two cabs would be even (400w to each) and that would be a problem. this is because the two 10 inch speakers in the 102 would be getting more power individually than the four 10 inch speakers in the 104.

Is that actually an issue though? Seeing as the 102 is rated at 400W shouldn't this be fine, albeit slightly annoying that they aren't consistently balanced? I don't think the 210 is going to get damaged, or will it?

He mentions that his engineer friend made him an impedance increaser cable for the 102. I'd consider getting something like this if I could see them online.

That said, I see a lot of duel cab rigs of all sorts of configurations so I this "problem" that the Youtuber mentions would be very common if that was the case. Maybe the issue is that these are all ten inch speakers, i.e. would a 4x10 and a 1x15 cab pose the same problem?

Yes, same problem. 4ohm 410 with 8ohm 210, = all speakers get equal power. Still bad. Most amps can't go under 4ohms.

 

[AdamR]

Yes, same problem. 4ohm 410 with 8ohm 210, = all speakers get equal power. Still bad. Most amps can't go under 4ohms.

Most of the class D stuff will do 2 ohms. However ot doesn't look like the amp I question does.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Most of the class D stuff will do 4 ohms. However ot doesn't look like the amp I question does.

It most likely does do 4ohms. His won't do 2. For that set up, he needs to be able to safely run at 2.7 ohm

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know any good brands that make heads that can handle 2ohms?

Mesa

 

[lomo]

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know any good brands that make heads that can handle 2ohms?

Genzler is another excellent choice....stable down to 2.67 Ohms so will happily drive 1 4 Ohm and 1 8 Ohm cab....also Gallien-Krueger Fusion and Legacy 800 series (down to 2 Ohms), or pretty much any dedicated, good ol' rackable power amp (which would need a separate preamp).

 

[HolmeBass]

Thanks, i was also considering the possibility of a 2x10 and a 1x15. Ideally I want a two cab setup so that I can take the smaller of the two to practices and use both cabs at gigs.

Do you think an 800w amp would be overkill for the MarkBass 2x10 and 1x15 pairing which are both 8Ohms and 400w cabs? I see this cab setup a lot but usually with the Little Mark II or III 500w amp.

The reason I'm leaning more towards 800w is that this is my current setup:

RM500 EVOII Head (RM-500-EVO-II-Head)
RM-210T-EVO II (RM-210T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)
RM-115T-EVO II (RM-115T-EVO II Super Lightweight Bass Cabinet)

I just don't find using one of these cabs is loud enough in a practice (they're 8Ohms so only 250w of power is getting sent to the cab from the 500w amp) and for gigs it's also too quiet with both cabs, which is crazy as I'm supposedly using the full 500w!?

Obviously the cheaper lightweight Rootmaster series of cabs must play a factor in this. But just for context, for 15 years I used to have an Ashdown 410 and 300w MAG head and that sounded louder than my current dual cab setup with 500w amp. I thought I was doing myself a favour by switching to lightweight, but clearly not.

Using the ratings as intended is good, so this will be ok.

However, even if a cabinet is getting less power than its thermal rating, you can still hurt the drivers through mechanical over-excursion. So just be somewhat circumspect on boosting the bass a lot and then running the whole stack really loud. Otherwise the 210 & 115 combo is going to work. For that matter so would the 410 & 210 combination. It think people get a bit too hung up on "power per driver" calculation. I always think in terms of cabinets.

Of course, thinking in terms of cabinets, you would compare cabinet sensitivity ratings to match cabinets for your stack, and the 410 is almost certainly louder than either the 210 or 115, so in a way that consideration sneaks back in.

Getting two identical 210's is a popular rig and solves all of these issues.

So would two identical 115's or 410's.

But as others have noted, a single 410 can handle most gigs, unless you're playing metal or loud hard rock. I find it depends on how loud the drummer plays.

 

[MCS4]

Otherwise the 210 & 115 combo is going to work. For that matter so would the 410 & 210 combination. It think people get a bit too hung up on "power per driver" calculation. I always think in terms of cabinets.

Agreed. I have gigged both 210 & 115 and 410 & 210 combinations, and both worked great. Not as great as the 4x10 plus 4x10 that I ultimately worked my way up to, but that's another story.