....or a progressive bluegrass tune, in which case it's ONE two three FOUR five six SE- ven one TWO three four FIVE six se- VEN one two.....
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Double Bass Advice on playing blazing tempos?
- Thread starter telarcfatigue
- Start date
....or a progressive bluegrass tune, in which case it's ONE two three FOUR five six SE- ven one TWO three four FIVE six se- VEN one two.....
And then there's Bulgarian music, wherein you just play ONE, and then keep going really fast until you run out of notes.
Yes some saxophone players like playing blazing tempos, so if you play with someone like that, just practice about half an hour daily, that Jamey Aebersold Burnin' is a pretty good one, also Check out Rufus Reid, he can play real fast tempos only with his index finger, amazing, also check out Dave Holland, he can play real fast stuff without playing quater notes all the time but still implying the swing feel, that's real cool.
I play with Jamey a couple of times a month, and if you think that play-a-long is fast, you should try walking behind his solos at the tempos he likes to call... If you're ever over this way, let me know and I'll hook you up with him - from what I hear about your playing, he'd love to do a session with you - and then you can bleed for yourself!
You need lightning reaction times, plenty of rosin, and even more PRACTICE. It is *very* difficult to play a super-fast piece unless you know it by heart.
Most people I know don't need "plenty of rosin" to play uptempo walking lines. Whenever I put rosin on my fingers, it slows me down greatly because my fingers stick to the strings. As always, YMMV.
That's because you're doing it wrong, Chris; the rosin goes on the bottom of your shoes, so you don't fall off the stage.
You must be using Pops.
I don't mind Pops but it you are going to rosin your fingers for the blazing tempos you are going to want a dryer rosin. I would suggest Kolstein soft or all weather. If you are just using it on your shoes for grip I say stick with the Pops.
Again YMMV
I really hope this helps.
Hey all! Just checked out the newbie links and saw this thread in there.
I've been playing with a gypsy jazz group recently, and luckily for me, I've been able to solo on every tune we do.
I have noticed, however, that on a lot of the faster tunes that my styles of solos are limited. We play such quick tempos that when I start soloing sometimes it feels like I'm tripping over my notes. If I change the way I pizz the strings to having my hands more perpendicular to the fingerboard I can play the tempos easier. This feels a little like playing electric bass, and it also feels like cheating. Are my chops just not up to snuff or are solo speeds on the double bass physical limited due to its size and physicality? I feel like my pizz hand is just too slow to keep up with the notes I want to play.
I've been playing with a gypsy jazz group recently, and luckily for me, I've been able to solo on every tune we do.
I have noticed, however, that on a lot of the faster tunes that my styles of solos are limited. We play such quick tempos that when I start soloing sometimes it feels like I'm tripping over my notes. If I change the way I pizz the strings to having my hands more perpendicular to the fingerboard I can play the tempos easier. This feels a little like playing electric bass, and it also feels like cheating. Are my chops just not up to snuff or are solo speeds on the double bass physical limited due to its size and physicality? I feel like my pizz hand is just too slow to keep up with the notes I want to play.
When you're playing really fast walking lines there's more you can "get away with" in terms of what you'd normally do at slower tempos.
As Marc Neihof mentioned upthread, think in longer phrases. You don't have to play from chord to chord or think the root on the down beat of every bar. Find and play the shifting key centers of the tune. If your lines have an internal logic in their shape and direction, then they don't have to adhere as strictly to chord tones. For example, at a fast tempo you can play the 2nd degree of a chord's scale on beat one and the root on beat two if your line happens to be moving that direction already. At a slower tempo this might sound wrong, but when things are whizzing by...not so much.
As Marc Neihof mentioned upthread, think in longer phrases. You don't have to play from chord to chord or think the root on the down beat of every bar. Find and play the shifting key centers of the tune. If your lines have an internal logic in their shape and direction, then they don't have to adhere as strictly to chord tones. For example, at a fast tempo you can play the 2nd degree of a chord's scale on beat one and the root on beat two if your line happens to be moving that direction already. At a slower tempo this might sound wrong, but when things are whizzing by...not so much.
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lots of good stuff here.
number one though take care of your hands/physicality form most. I'm done because of too aggressive high-tempo playing. You end up with mittens without good technique.
You have to play differently at high tempos than slow. Rhythm & swing are first priorities. Play simpler lines because you want to create the tension-release over periods of measures not notes.
Play ascending and descending lines at 2 8ths per note. Move the tone center and peddle, things like that.
And, it is true that practicing diligently at slower or medium tempos will help with walking speed.
number one though take care of your hands/physicality form most. I'm done because of too aggressive high-tempo playing. You end up with mittens without good technique.
You have to play differently at high tempos than slow. Rhythm & swing are first priorities. Play simpler lines because you want to create the tension-release over periods of measures not notes.
Play ascending and descending lines at 2 8ths per note. Move the tone center and peddle, things like that.
And, it is true that practicing diligently at slower or medium tempos will help with walking speed.
I regularly play with some old guys (I am 64), who just play everything fast claiming it keeps the audience alert. I have come to thinking in 8 bar segments, aligning myself so that I keep arm movement to a minimum unless the line is heading somewhere.
While soloing I sometimes go to into half/quarter note line builder, often because I am so tired from playing the song at tempo, and take a break.
The group of three sounds interesting.
It's corny, but sometimes, you have to use "the force". Let your mind go and just play the line(s) without thinking.
While soloing I sometimes go to into half/quarter note line builder, often because I am so tired from playing the song at tempo, and take a break.
The group of three sounds interesting.
It's corny, but sometimes, you have to use "the force". Let your mind go and just play the line(s) without thinking.
Hi, in my experience it helps a lot to think in 2 instead of four. A lot of times it's been my mental process that would keep me from being able to hold down a fast tempo.
Let say you'd choose two notes per bar and repeat both once. ie.: for a Cmajor7 chord you could play C-C-E-E etc...this way you cut down the amount of thinking you need to do by half, also physically it will become half as demanding to play.
When tempos come to 300bpm and faster, you really don't need to play a lot of different notes per chord, much more important is to stay with the root movement of the progressions so you are providing a solid harmonic foundation for the band.
Hope this helps,
All the best,
Zoltan
Let say you'd choose two notes per bar and repeat both once. ie.: for a Cmajor7 chord you could play C-C-E-E etc...this way you cut down the amount of thinking you need to do by half, also physically it will become half as demanding to play.
When tempos come to 300bpm and faster, you really don't need to play a lot of different notes per chord, much more important is to stay with the root movement of the progressions so you are providing a solid harmonic foundation for the band.
Hope this helps,
All the best,
Zoltan
The faster the tempo, the deeper you have to be in a relaxed state. Simplifying your technique helps. Anything extraneous will get in the way immediately. What's simpler? It depends, that's why you go to teachers. They give the feedback you need.
For me, the only way to play fast comfortably is to be playing fast a lot. Setting the metronome to a fast tempo with the clicks on 2 and 4, picking a tune (lately Yours Is My Heart Alone in F) and then walking on the changes. At first just making sure i'm totally locked in to the tempo, not rushing or dragging at all with the beat exactly where i want it, all the while laying out the changes in a fairly basic fashion (if this isn't happening to my satisfaction then the tempo goes down until it is). As i feel more comfortable rhythmically then i'll begin to stretch out harmonically, taking different lines or shapes through the changes or staying in one register or area on the instrument. When i feel in control at that tempo, with the harmonic and rhythmic in balance, then the metronome goes up a click and the whole thing starts again. All the while making sure i'm staying relaxed and breathing fully and deeply at regular intervals
PS - I should add that my default right hand method at all tempos is two fingers together, so all this is done that way, and with an eye at being able to do it that way even at the very fastest tempo
PS - I should add that my default right hand method at all tempos is two fingers together, so all this is done that way, and with an eye at being able to do it that way even at the very fastest tempo
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Hi Michael, I couldn't agree more. Playing fast tempos (or any tempos) happens by doing them a lot. Really like your method of breaking down your lines starting out with simple solutions to different and more complicated ones.
Best wishes,
Zoltan
Coming back to the double bass after a long layoff I don't have nearly the chops I once did. Something I've been doing in addition to the essential physical work is listening to fast tempo recordings and singing or sub-vocalizing a bass line with an ear to hearing fast tempos better. Not only does your body need to be relaxed to pull off playing fast so does your ear.
You can only play as fast as your can hear. Notes need to be grouped together as a single thought or phrase. Right now I'm working on having that sort clarity as much as possible. The faster you go the clarity can also suffer quickly.
