Advice please on extending bass range upwards only?

[BrassedOn]

For me, I like chording and walking on a baritone guitar in B standard, you can get up to .015-.06x flat strings, which a guitar jazzer might play on baritone or hollow body jazz box. Finger style with right thumb doing simpler walking. Fingers pluck.

With this you can play a lot of kernel/shell chord where the root is on one of the low strings, (often skipping a string) plus the 7 and 3 on two higher strings . A lot of chord possibilities within two frets and 4 strings.

Minor 7
x
6
5
x
5
x

Dom7
x
x
4
3
x
3

Standard tuning is nice as you don’t need to reinvent as much shapes.

Alternatively, electric cello strings in mando-cello tuning
I think C G D A
on a top loading short scale bass. Good enough range, good open string keys, keeps bass string spacing, but it’s a stretch and you have to learn 5ths tuning. I did this on a Squier Bronco (used these show up $100-150). Top loading bridge just due to string length, string thru body need special longer strings). Mandolin tuning chord shapes have some nice triad chord possibilities within two frets and 4 strings.

Major
x 5
5 3
3 3
3 x

And if you dig this you might just get a mandocello which might be at home in a string band. This tuning is also I think an octave above 5th tuning for bass so not too odd.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Not trying to be dumb, but at some point you know you’re well into baritone if not standard guitar territory.
If you have your bass needs met why not get an instrument designed for the job instead of trying to force a bass into the stratosphere? Just a thought.

I get it, but some players like to have the same feel of the instrument they play. They are used to the scale lenght, etc. Also, even though you might be able to tune the two different instruments to the same pitch, the timbre will be different, and some might prefer one over the other.

Tuning a 5 string to EADGC is a common thing, you will probably need a 6-string set and then you can ditch the B string.

 

[Snert]

My Kiesel Zeus 6 strings is tuned EADGbe like a guitar. I used a 7 string bass set to do it.

Is your Zeus 30 or 34?

I have a Conklin SIT 7 string set and my 33" is going to be EADGBE as soon as I get my butt moving and string it up.

 

[Maxra]

I assume wound high F strings must exist...

I checked that, and Pyramid at least make wound bass strings in 020 022 and 025 sizes. Here in Europe Thomann sell them singly, and they do 6 string and (I think) 7 string sets.

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Is your Zeus 30 or 34?

I have a Conklin SIT 7 string set and my 33" is going to be EADGBE as soon as I get my butt moving and string it up.

34

 

[Cal03]

I can't speak for fretless, but I think that a bass VI or 30" scale baritone tuned E-F is the easiest way to achieve this.

I have dabbled in ERB territory using all fifths tuning, fifths gets you more range faster than fourths. I have two fivers tuned CGDAE, almost as much range as a 7 string tuned B-F. I can cover bass lines, comping, and melodic lines. I even had my sixer tuned in fifths a couple of times, CGDAEB, the equivalent range of an 8 string tuned in fourths. It was honestly too much range for me, so I keep the sixer in fourths B-C.

 

[Oscar Stern]

My Bass has extra frets to allow for that

 

[Snert]

My Bass has extra frets to allow for that

And most of mine have extra strings too.

 

[el murdoque]

Works just fine.

Get a 4 string set and add a .030ish for the C and a .020ish for the F. It's hard to find wound high F strings so you may have to settle for a plain steel string which may not have the same timbre as the wound EADGC strings.

You might get some rattling/buzzing at the nut if you're shifting from BEADG(C) to EADGC(F).

That said, you'll need to have really good intonation to accurately play upper register chords on a fretless bass.

Tuning in fifths could work for you, too: FCGDAE low to high (F same as 1st fret low E), or start a fourth lower from C same as 1st fret low B. Either would give you a low drone that fits the keys you mentioned and easy 1 finger power chords up high. Would have to put together string sets yourself from singles, but it's not that hard.

The first reply basically answers it all.

You can more or less get any fretless five and put on a high C, then experiment with playing and tuning.
The strings might be a little too narrow to sit properly in the nut, but a guitar tech can sort you out there (just ask them to try and rescue the old nut, so you can swap it back or include it should you sell it).

However, for experimentation you can just throw on the new strings, get it in tune, set up the neck for the higher tension and play around without committing to changes that are hard to reverse. Maybe your ears and fingers are up to the task and maybe you will find that upper register chord work on a fretless is damn hard and not worth the effort.

 

[pklima]

I'd suggest fifths tuning, CGDAE. That would give you all the bass range down to C a half-step above the usual low B, a high E, and Irish fiddle or mandolin tunes should lay nicely on the open strings. Maybe even DGDAD, for maximum Irishness.

 

[Maxra]

I owned and played, for a short while, an 8 string non octave bass. F# B EADG C F. The F was so thin and tight that I found it pretty annoying to play on...I'll be curious to see if you do this, what you think of the feel!

The 6 I ended up with is now set tuned EADGCF ('octave guitar' tuning EADGBE works just as well). The strings are a custom nickel plated round core set from Newtone Strings in UK, to their suggestions of 105/ .085/ .065/ .045/ .030/.018 (all wound) . The F string sounds and feels OK for tension, but has a slightly gritty feel if you bend it (not that I'll be doing that much). The set feels and sounds reasonably well balanced at practice amp volume (all I've got here). Chords on the top 3 sound like a clear but fat guitar. It's pretty much what I hoped for from an inexpensive 6, except I suspect this Harley Benton 650 is physically heavier than reviews suggest.

 

[B-Mac]

Having got my acoustic bass ambitions more or less under control, I now have a cunning plan involving a cheap extended range solid fretless bass (probably a Harley Benton 550 or 650). I know 00's of UK/Irish/Euro folk tunes by ear. A lot are in F, C, G , D, F or related keys and modes. It would be good to work out a way to play these tunes or regular guitar style chords at times at the higher end of the bass, while retaining the ability to play regular bass rhythm accompaniment, and maybe work out using one or more low strings as open drones under those.

I have a hunch that tuning a 4 string bass ADGC low to high (ie 'move the strings down one and add a high 1st') might make playing regular bass lines more difficult. I think 5 string basses are commonly tuned BEADG, 6 stringers BEADGC, low to high, and there are a few production 7 stringers about. So, does it work OK using the available extra strings to extend the range upwards only compared to standard 4 string tuning? I mean tuning a 5 string EADGC, or a 6 string EADGCF. That's assuming high F strings are available for 7 string basses - I think Pyramid at least do a wound .022 which I've seen reviewed as 'robust', as part of their 7 string set. I don't envisage doing much slapping and popping (!).

What do you think?

Thanks, Max

 

[dkelley]

The 6 I ended up with is now set tuned EADGCF ('octave guitar' tuning EADGBE works just as well). The strings are a custom nickel plated round core set from Newtone Strings in UK, to their suggestions of 105/ .085/ .065/ .045/ .030/.018 (all wound) . The F string sounds and feels OK for tension, but has a slightly gritty feel if you bend it (not that I'll be doing that much). The set feels and sounds reasonably well balanced at practice amp volume (all I've got here). Chords on the top 3 sound like a clear but fat guitar. It's pretty much what I hoped for from an inexpensive 6, except I suspect this Harley Benton 650 is physically heavier than reviews suggest.

thank you for all of this detail! Love the info, and excellent description of the playing experience.

 

[MoireBass]

You could also do something similar to Charlie Hunter. He used to tune his 8-string instruments so the three bass strings were E,A, & D and the top five strings were A,D,G,B, & E. (But later changed back to 7-string using only two bass strings.) He plays bass lines with one finger and chords with the rest.

Charlie Hunter - Wikipedia