Aggressive Pbass tone with or without fx?

[cataract]

Wow, surprised that people can't believe it's just a P-bass into an amp.

Yeah I mean I was getting similar tones running my P straight into an Ampeg SVT CL + 8x10 cab back in the day.. gain knob dimed / Vol adjusted to taste. There are many ways to break an egg lol. Not everyone wants to lug around 800 lbs of amp to achieve some sweet sweet tone. I can run my Rusty Box into my 400RB / Mesa Subway stack @ bedroom volumes and serenade the cat at night with grindy goodness, all without waking the wife!

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

I got a chance to give this a listen. It embarrasses me to admit that I didn’t know anything about the Stranglers before this post brought them to my attention, so bear that in mind, but based on the audio in the original post I think you have that sound pegged. My ignorance might actually work in our favor here, because I don’t know any better than any casual listeners at this point (though I do intend to catch up in a hurry). I don’t know if anyone can ever exactly reproduce a sound largely derived from someone else’s damaged speakers, but this comes more than close enough.

Thanks for that, an unbiased ear on this is a welcome thing. There's always a closer reach even without the original gear, I just go by ear and playing and eliminate whatever fails most. Technique mostly.. arthritis and a very late start in life being my main limitations, and maybe a lack of any kind of tuition. I just had to figure it out with what I've got.

What two fingers said earlier got me a bit closer already, I cut some brightness on the GM-400's compressor input that I had there because the strings were re-strung recently. They've died off a bit so cranking up the passive tone on the bass helps more now. (Can't have too much of that when the strings still ring like church bells even when damped.)

 

[Wfrance3]

Many answers…
One of my best tricks; if you have a compressor pedal with makeup gain on it, use that to clean boost your amp to a higher gain input. - Dial out the compression so it never engages. you can put some compression back and compensate with the makeup gain as needed, but only put compression back in if it helps. Don’t be afraid to leave it out.

 

[Phaidrus]

I got a chance to give this a listen. It embarrasses me to admit that I didn’t know anything about the Stranglers before this post brought them to my attention, so bear that in mind, but based on the audio in the original post I think you have that sound pegged. My ignorance might actually work in our favor here, because I don’t know any better than any casual listeners at this point (though I do intend to catch up in a hurry). I don’t know if anyone can ever exactly reproduce a sound largely derived from someone else’s damaged speakers, but this comes more than close enough.

One of the most important bands of the punk era and way beyond. With too many hits to mention.

Here's Peaches and the majestic Golden Brown.

 

[micguy]

Something in his signal chain, whether it's an amp or a pedal, is distorting - I've been working with different pickups, eq's, wiring topologies, etc, for many years, to try to get the tone in my head, which is less distorted than that, and I haven't been able to get where I want without some kind of dirt processing in the chain.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Wow, surprised that people can't believe it's just a P-bass into an amp.

P-bass into a tube amp works for me, but it's important to mention that the tube amp is being pushed to the point of clipping. Not harsh clipping... but clipping just the same.



Edit: I'm not saying this is you, but many don't recognize tube overdrive/saturation until it becomes obvious distortion (same's true for compression, except replace 'distortion' with 'squish'). I never wanted my old SVT rig to obviously distort... it sounded its best at the point of power tube clipping, when the saturation could mainly be heard on transients. The amp sounded good at low volume too, but didn't have the magical harmonic richness from gently overdriven power tubes.

 

[groovaholic]

If you can find a Tech 21 'Leeds' pedal, it's their Hiwatt clone, and it'll absolutely NAIL that sound - I've owned it twice, and it was just a bit compressed and clanky for my preference.

That's probably why when I listened to your samples, I liked the tone you currently have better than JJ's tone in that clip...but if verisimilitude is what you're after, the Leeds is your ticket...

 

[Callused Finger]

Low action, dig in for grind and dirt.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

If you can find a Tech 21 'Leeds' pedal, it's their Hiwatt clone, and it'll absolutely NAIL that sound - I've owned it twice, and it was just a bit compressed and clanky for my preference.

That's probably why when I listened to your samples, I liked the tone you currently have better than JJ's tone in that clip...but if verisimilitude is what you're after, the Leeds is your ticket...

That got me looking up and down four pages to see what samples you meant. Do you mean mine? If so, that's interesting! Very.

Actually I got a stone cold case of GAS right now, all those people saying how easy it is to get the tone given the right amp. That old Hiwatt 400 I mentioned, I put in a tentative query about that. If my offer is accepted that will scare me, the responsibility of owning it.. Another page on TB says about 40 were made, 11 of them known. If I get this, it will be 12. If I don't, I will keep the details quiet because it wouldn't be mine to shout about. I might sneak one picture though, I took some when I repaired it last. I'm going to wait though, it's not like there's any hurry with this amp.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

I think its also worth mentioning that one can have an aggressive touch without it looking like you are absolutely punishing your instrument. A heavy attack can be a very controlled thing, which it appears is what's happening here.

I agree. It's not so much a digging in, as a striking through. I don't think it's entirely coincidental that JJ studied karate as well as bass playing. I never studied a martial art, but I've always optimised motion for efficiency, and in the long run there's a lot in common. Not that I am that good with a bass.. Strangely, when playing Nice And Sleazy (which I do not do well enough to trouble people here with unless I get it right soon), I imagine the pick as if I gripped a pen, it helps focus my mind on it better, gets better precision. If the motions are not small, the placement for the next attack will be wrong.

Sometimes when I practise Sleazy, I have sympathy for Beatrix Kiddo when Pai Mai wants her to punch through that board in Kill Bill 2... As Geoffrey Boycott says, it examines yer technique. JJ, in making it sound so easy, has really got some.

 

[Peterson]

Sounds like a new set of rotosound strings

 

[Phaidrus]

Interesting tutorial on all things JJ, including how to get his tone.

 

[TwototheValley]

Posted years ago on another forum:

“I watched the Stranglers play in Coventry many years ago and the pogoing punks at the front of the crowd were showering the band with gob. JJB warned them to stop, but one punk just pogoed to the front and gobbed in his face. JJB promptly pole-axed him with his bass!”

Guess that’s how you get “aggressive PBass tone”….it really IS in the hands.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Posted years ago on another forum:

“I watched the Stranglers play in Coventry many years ago and the pogoing punks at the front of the crowd were showering the band with gob. JJB warned them to stop, but one punk just pogoed to the front and gobbed in his face. JJB promptly pole-axed him with his bass!”

Guess that’s how you get “aggressive PBass tone”….it really IS in the hands.

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I guess the gesture had to be made.. Personally I think it's enough to make them beleive you'll hurt them. There were three psychobillies predating on what now gets called a mosh pit, in Trinity Hall, in the early 80's. They hurt people. They pushed me once, very hard, from behind. I nearly went down, but recoiled and spun round, and stopped them with one glare. It was a very long glare. They never tried it on me again. It's the only way when you know you can't be sure to win. Got to make them beleive you don't care.

I always hated the spitting thing. I'd never do that to a band. I wouldn't have tolerated it being done to me either. But I think I'd have stopped short of committing GBH to stop it. (I used to lash out physically as a kid, but as an adult that can mean jail, and I have no wish to go there). I heard once that he'd stopped some trouble by taking a well-timed moment to stand on a guy's hand as he put it on the edge of the stage. I could have done that.. People don't think much about their strength when caught in a moment of that kind of vulnerability caused by their own carelessness.

 

[Warlock_Surfer]

If you can find a Tech 21 'Leeds' pedal, it's their Hiwatt clone, and it'll absolutely NAIL that sound - I've owned it twice, and it was just a bit compressed and clanky for my preference.

That's probably why when I listened to your samples, I liked the tone you currently have better than JJ's tone in that clip...but if verisimilitude is what you're after, the Leeds is your ticket...

tech 21 has the new english muffy which is a hiwatt paired with a big muff.
Tech 21 SansAmp Character Plus - English Muffy

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

@Sushi Box FX offers the Elementary and Dr Wattson based on the very special HiWatt DR103

I overlooked this until it came up in a search after I'd got some interesting responses in the recent 'Clean preamp' thread. A high-volt hand wired Dr. Wattson does look like a good choice, but there's no presence control. I think that might be an important need for the Burnel bass..

There's a guy in England building valve preamps so maybe there's a way to get closer for me, but it may be that the presence control is affecting the output stage for all I know.. I'm still not convinced my Oberheim GM-400 method isn't more than close enough, but I'm taking this DR103 circuit replication idea seriously now. Doing it in a 1U short (160mm) rack with wiring I can easily fix and maintain myself would be awesome. Can't be doing with SMT..