Ahead, on or behind the beat?

[Ric5]

Do you play ahead of the beat?

Right on it?

Or behind the beat?

Do you even know?

I don't. I can't tell. I should ask the drummer.

it depends on the song and the band

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Do you play ahead of the beat?

Right on it?

Or behind the beat?

Do you even know?

I don't. I can't tell. I should ask the drummer.

It depends. Yea I know. A lot of help I am.

With the music I play most of the time it’s on the beat, but I do from time to time use both sides of the beat for effect.

 

[slimefuzz]

I am the beat

 

[Rib 13]

For me, it depends on two things in this order:

The drummer
The song in question

because sometimes a drummer will play every song dragged or pushed that the song in question doesnt matter

 

[factory presets]

Mostly play from tucked right in behind the drums to a great big magician's pocket. I can play out in front of the drums. But if I'm honest, there's not a lot of call for it outside of metal. It sure won't fill a dance floor.

 

[mambo4]

I think the "depends on the song" responses are almost on point, but I'd go a little further,
based on these conclusions I have reached about the terms ahead/behind/on top of the beat:

• its not a very accurate term for what is actually happening and confuses many (it confused me)
• "ahead" = feels rushed, but isn't really. "behind" = feels dragged, but isn't really
• every note of a song / phrases is not played entirely ahead/behind: individual notes within the phrase are displaced slightly, while other notes are spot on.
• thus, to play behind the beat , to play wat feels dragged, but isn't really, you displace some of the notes - usually upbeats or back beats- slightly behind the perfect grid. But the Downbeats are still on the beat. Thus you do not fall behind or lose the pulse.

So not only does it depend on the song, it depends on the subdivision I'm playing

This understanding arose form an interview with John Paul Johns I watched, where he played examples of what "ahead" and "behind" the beat mean to him. I choose to accept what he demonstrated.

 

[dalahorse]

I think the "depends on the song" responses are almost on point, but I'd go a little further,
based on these conclusions I have reached about the terms ahead/behind/on top of the beat:

• its not a very accurate term for what is actually happening and confuses many (it confused me)
• "ahead" = feels rushed, but isn't really. "behind" = feels dragged, but isn't really
• every note of a song / phrases is not played entirely ahead/behind: individual notes within the phrase are displaced slightly, while other notes are spot on.
• thus, to play behind the beat , to play wat feels dragged, but isn't really, you displace some of the notes - usually upbeats or back beats- slightly behind the perfect grid. But the Downbeats are still on the beat. Thus you do not fall behind or lose the pulse.

So not only does it depend on the song, it depends on the subdivision I'm playing

This understanding arose form an interview with John Paul Johns I watched, where he played examples of what "ahead" and "behind" the beat mean to him. I choose to accept what he demonstrated.

This is a great explanation. There was another post about Bonham's playing being behind the beat. I was going to point out that his downbeats are always precisely on the beat, but his ghost notes and such are definitely a bit behind. This ties it all together.

 

[dougjwray]

I interpreted the question a little differently, maybe incorrectly. *Of course* it varies with the genre. But what are various players' *natural tendencies*? The tendencies they have to fight in order to play behind, ahead, or in the center?
I've always had an issue with pushing it. After I realized it, I made a conscious effort to play right down the middle. But then I'd hear a recording, and hear that I'd still been rushing. It messed with my mind a bit.
I've gotten better, but a funny thing happened when I was subbing in a bluegrass band, a rather unfamiliar genre for me.. As usual, I was consciously trying to relax and pull back, but on a fast tune, the guitar player yelled at me, "What are you doing?! Push it!!"

 

[Lo-E]

It depends upon the song and the style. It also depends upon the drummer I’m playing with.

 

[Standalone]

In front of the beat if you lead, most funk song are played that way. On the beat for almost everything rest. Behind for some neosoul or reggae.
Sometimes you play the song on the beat, but for a midsection where you lead - you play in front.
So in the end, it depends on the song.

P.S. Most bass players err on the forward side, playing in front when on the beat is needed. Any time you go in front, rethink, you could be wrong.

Funk is more like… up tempo but behind the beat, at least when I hear and play it.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Decades ago,while playing a tune,someone once told me I was behind the beat.
I have yet to find someone who can put a clear definition and a demo what that really means.
By how much?A tenth of a second?A hundredth?

Do we really expect the ourselves as human beings to have machine like quantized timing of note values?

Other musician:"You're behind the beat"
Me:"By how much?"
Other musician:Two tenths of a second"
Me:"Right!I'll adjust myself to play two tenths of a second sooner.

 

[bwildt]

By how much?A tenth of a second?A hundredth?

It's hard to quantify. It's a feel, like swing. Swing timing changes depending on tempo. Slower tempos swing a lot. As the tempo gets faster, the swing feel starts to feel more like straight eights. Fast tempos like beebop really don't swing that much.

When to push or drag? It can depend so much on the song style, as mentioned earlier. I tend to usually play slightly behind. It matches with my somewhat lazy/greasy playing style. I find that the drummer really has the most opportunity to play forward or back.

I played in one rock band where the drummer pushed everything, beat and fills. He said it makes the song feel more lively. Boy, was he hard to play with. On the other hand, I played a (mostly) blues jam where the girl drummer had the LATEST backbeat snare I had ever heard. She was startlingly late, but it sounded very good.

Interplay between one instrument playing on beat and another late can make for a very cool sound. I often use the song "There Goes The Neighborhood" by Roomful of Blues as an example. The bass is playing pretty much on beat, but the drummer is constantly changing his timing. Sometimes he sounds on the beat, then he's lazy late. This very fluid timekeeping ebbs and flows throughout the song. I just love it. A Youtube link to the song is below.

 

[ctmullins]

All three. Depends on the feel that the style/genre needs.

 

[JimmyM]

When I started playing jazz swing more often, I got constantly told to play ahead of the beat by drummers. I thought it would cause us to rush, and got told to just shut up and do it. Best advice ever!

When I was playing certain types of funk and R&B, I was told to be on the beat and not behind it. I got told by drummers that the feel worked better if you let the snare be slightly behind the beat and we be on it. It worked for a lot of stuff, although I still think it’s cool for the bass to be behind the beat on certain songs…slower tempos mostly.

Still, the beauty of music is every song is different, and what works for most doesn’t work for everything across the board. Folks spend a lifetime working on how to place their notes appropriately.

 

[5andFretless]

If you are playing dance music there is only one answer.

 

[chris_b]

If the song or drummer is dragging I'll lean into the beat. Try to push it along.

If we're just fine, I'll probably sit back a little.

 

[micguy]

I normally play wherever the feel dictates, but there’s one drummer that I’ve played with a couple of times (kinda new) where I have to land right on the beat, or that drummer thinks it’s a cue to speed up or slow down.

 

[micguy]

I play rubato.

Domo arigato, Mr Rubato

 

[vindibona1]

This is kind of an old thread and I didn't read more than a few replies on the first page. But as a classically trained musician with years of symphony and musical theater experience playing under some incredible conductors and music directors (trumpet in symphony, trumpet and bass in theater) there is one caveat:

NEVER PLAY AHEAD OF THE STICK!

Translation for bass (because generally there is no "stick" other than the drummer, and sometime YOU are the stick.) : A lot of time you might want to be a hair behind the beat. Sometimes right on the beat. NEVER ahead IMHO.

As a tangential side comment. Sometimes when watching classical music you'll see a conductor WAY ahead of where the music is. As a musician, with these conductors it can be very disconcerting at first. But the conductors that practice this style of conducting aren't beating time, but generating tempo, phrasing and the musicans are responding to that while listening to each other for congruency and blend which takes another level of musicianship. But it's not unlike playing in a band where you have to listen to each other to make several individuals sound like one machine playing different parts. So in answer to the original question, where you are in "the stream" depends on the music. But again, nobody is ahead. With rock groups, typically the drummer is the boss. A great band needs a great drummer with outstanding fundamentals to keep the group in a totally cohesive experience. Enter Ringo Starr.

 

[2112]

Usually on the beat, but will push and pull depending on the song.