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Aircraft maintenance sent overseas. Help settle a debate.

Mike N said:
If someone can't tighten down a seat properly I sure as heck don't want them working on the engine.

How much are the airlines saving by flying the plane to China to have it serviced, and then flying it all the way back home? Fuel isn't cheap, seems to me it would be more cost effective to have them serviced here.

A B747 costs roughly $20,000 per hour to operate, taking into account fixed and variable costs. Seattle to Shanghai is roughly 11 hours. Do the math from there on a round trip basis.
 
bmc said:
Read my post.

Airline economics 101 in one or two TB posts

The costing to operate an airlines is derived from two categories: fixed costs and variable costs. Fixed costs include aircraft ownership or leasing, salaries, buildings,insurance, marketing, etc. Variable costs include fuel, catering, landing fees, atc charges.

Monthly lease costs vary from $60,000 a month for an old clapped out B727 (includes engine lease cost), to roughly $300,000/ month for an A320 or a B737, to $800-1,000 for a new B777-300. These numbers fluctuate based on demand and supply.

Whether you fly an airplane or not, you have to pay for the fixed costs. Or someone will seize the airplanes. The objective is to ensure that every time you start an airplane, you have revenue passengers or revenue cargo on board and of sufficient revenue to not only pay for the flight but to contribute to the company.

So, when I quoted $20,000 an hour, that includes fixed costs prorated across your entire fleet, and based on the number of hours each fleet type is scheduled to fly. Typically, long range airplanes have a daily utilization of 11 to 14 hours per day. Short haul is ball park 9 to 10.

Average B737 / A319 series aircraft operate for about $6,000 an hour, B767-300 for roughly $10,000 per hour. This varies from airline to airline, but I think that they are close.

A LAX to Hong Kong flight takes, on average 13 hours. I have done it in 15 hours and 50 minutes with strong headwinds, but for the sake of this discussion, lets figure on 13 hours to prove my point. Lets assume that US carriers are flying their airplanes to southern China for maintenance. If China is not on your route map, you will have to fly the airplane empty from LAX to Southern China. You can sell seats because you do not underlying route authority to carry passengers. These traffic rights are negotiated and awarded to specific airlines. So, to accept the claim that US carriers are flying their airplanes to China mean they would incur a round trip expense of USD520,000 per rotation to position the airplane, before you incur the expenses of having allegedly unqualified grease monkeys touch your airplane. Considering the frequency of maintenance required and assume you have five B747's in your fleet, you are paying out of pocket, millions to access cheap maintenance. On top of that, you are pulling an airplane out of the network to do this and it is not earning money. It does not make sense.

The above is a grossly over simplified explanation of airline economics. If you are interested in learning more, check out Cranfield in the UK or Embry Riddle in Florida and Arizona, or IATA's Air Mercury course (which I have taught and occasionally teach Air Bilateral Negotiation and network planning.
 
Downunderwonder said:
Say your 767 planes rotate through Singapore or Bangkok. It might be 3 hours each way to China, so $60,000 and extra 6 hours out of circulation might be small change in a major inspection operation.

Exactly. If you look at one of my first posts, I explained how a Canadian carrier' B747's were Bangkok based. In such cases it makes sense. But to suggest that all US carriers send their planes to China makes as much sense as driving your car to China for maintenance. Google "MRO" for Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul and you can find who the big operators are.
 
bmc said:
Exactly. If you look at one of my first posts, I explained how a Canadian carrier' B747's were Bangkok based. In such cases it makes sense. But to suggest that all US carriers send their planes to China makes as much sense as driving your car to China for maintenance. Google "MRO" for Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul and you can find who the big operators are.

Link Removed is a good example of an MRO facility.
 
bmc said:
Exactly. If you look at one of my first posts, I explained how a Canadian carrier' B747's were Bangkok based. In such cases it makes sense. But to suggest that all US carriers send their planes to China makes as much sense as driving your car to China for maintenance. Google "MRO" for Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul and you can find who the big operators are.

Here is a fairly recent article on an MRO in China:

Invalid Link Removed
 
Yep, I knew this. Your friend is right. Even if it were common knowledge, nobody would give a rats @ss as long as they get the cheapest flight available. Welcome to the world of the almighty dollar.

To answer your question, no the general public doesn't know, nor would they care if they did.

Seriously? Up here in Canada our Flag carrier layed off all the workers and out sourced the work to somewhere in South America, absolute last time I flew with them.
There's a reason. Here we can hold a bird if it doesn't pass the sniff test, which in spite of your desire to save cash, you WANT us to do, and our ticket allows us, even in the face of obscene pressure to say 'Nope, blow it out your ear it's going nowhere because ( fill in the blank )
Think that rule holds with offshore maintenance?
Here's why: The money you want the carrier wants more of also. If by chance you do end up as an aluminum oilrig, they pay the MUCH LOWER death benefit. Normally it's total fatalities and that mostly absolves those nasty lawsuits

"Oh we're so sorry Mrs Trucktek2, must have been pilot error, here's a pittance, now please go away, your tears are upsetting paying passengers. Yes we fully understand he died screaming, on fire, then crushed to paste, what of it? Everyone goes sometime."
If your so keen to save money let the homeless guy at the local 711 perform dental surgery, or the guy you know may not be here legally perform a heart transplant, you saving money yes? This IS the criteria right?
The house is gamboling, with your life as the ante.
 
Is the OP requesting that people driving cars manufactured overseas, consuming pharmaceuticals manufactured overseas, wearing clothes manufactured overseas, using electronics manufactured overseas, eating food manufactured overseas should give two hoots about whether the aircraft they ride on is maintained overseas?
 
Is the OP requesting that people driving cars manufactured overseas, consuming pharmaceuticals manufactured overseas, wearing clothes manufactured overseas, using electronics manufactured overseas, eating food manufactured overseas should give two hoots about whether the aircraft they ride on is maintained overseas?

He is reporting something that, in reality, doesn't exist. His post is meant to stir excitement. Nothing more. There is no basis to it.

Seriously? Up here in Canada our Flag carrier layed off all the workers and out sourced the work to somewhere in South America, absolute last time I flew with them.

Air Canada's A330 and B777 heavy maintenance is done by ST Aerospace (a global MRO) and HAECO in Hong Kong (one of the top in the world). B767's are done in Ireland by Lufthansa Technic. Some of the landing overhaul goes to China, but that's no big deal. High quality operators in China.
 
Air Canada's A330 and B777 heavy maintenance is done by ST Aerospace (a global MRO) and HAECO in Hong Kong (one of the top in the world). B767's are done in Ireland by Lufthansa Technic. Some of the landing overhaul goes to China, but that's no big deal. High quality operators in China.

Which used to be handled by a CANADIAN facility in Vancouver. As long as lead shows up in children toys and melamine appears in milk I have a vested interest in remaining sketchy, dubious and downright distrustful of products and services obtained in China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_export_recalls

So lets see do I have reason to trust the A/C mechanics?
I'll get back to you.....

:D
 
Which used to be handled by a CANADIAN facility in Vancouver. As long as lead shows up in children toys and melamine appears in milk I have a vested interest in remaining sketchy, dubious and downright distrustful of products and services obtained in China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_export_recalls

So lets see do I have reason to trust the A/C mechanics?
I'll get back to you.....

:D

Got ya. :-)

I hate Air Canada for other reasons, aside from being a crappy airline airline.
 

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