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Alleva-Coppolo vs. Sadowsky NYC
- Thread starter Bjazzman
- Start date
IME I believe you are talking about 60's and 70's pickup placement no? Generally 60's has a much fuller tone while the 70's is much more aggressive, but a little less "full". IME of course.
all the AC basses i've tried are like taking the best vintage basses, and making them bigger sounding, while still retaining that sweet, smooth, silky tone that makes puts this jazz into the killer jazz catagory.
all the sadowsky basses i've owned are frankly super hot rodded jazz basses regularly fed creatine and pepper spray, held back by a stainless steel chain and silver studded collar, with you holding the key.
all the sadowsky basses i've owned are frankly super hot rodded jazz basses regularly fed creatine and pepper spray, held back by a stainless steel chain and silver studded collar, with you holding the key.
to those of you a/c users which do you prefer the lm or lg and why? does the ash/maple combination come pretty close to the sadowsky?
and did we ever figure out if the sadowsky can pull off the a-c tones and vice versa or are they two totally seperate beasts?
and did we ever figure out if the sadowsky can pull off the a-c tones and vice versa or are they two totally seperate beasts?
MikeBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 4, 2003
- 11,943
- 3,140
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist- Suhr basses, PedalTrain, GHS, Ultimate Ears
Position of the rear pick-up in relation to the bridge.
70s-the pick-up is closer to the bridge than the 60s- about a half inch or so.
A Sadowsky with singles will sound closer to the AC, but when first played KJung's LM, I lost my mind.
It sounded closer to my particular old Jazz than my Sadowsky- which, was my ultimate goal- find a 5 that sounds like my old Jazz.
He wouldn't sell it to me so I had to go get one.
I happened to find a LG model.
Being a big fan of alder/rosewood, I took the chance. And I'm not sure if I had the chance if I would change to be honest.
And it's also damn close to my old Jazz, albeit warmer sounding.
But still great sounding.
If you would like a better idea of the two recorded almost identically, check out "Got to Getcha" for my Sadowsky (alder/rosewood with HC pick-ups) on my myspace page.
And then listen again to "If You Want Me To Stay" on there as well (or on the Alleva site) LG5- alder/rosewood.
Both recorded into my Groove Tubes Ditto Box tube DI straight to the board.
No EQ'ing and some compression from my Demeter Compulator.
Granted the Sadowsky is a 4 string on that track- but should give you a good idea.
Here is a clip of my Sadowsky 5 (ash/rosewood)with singles:
DI out of my amp to the board. Not much EQ on my end really at all- a little cut at about 1K and Demeter compressor again.
So, there are three live clips/examples for you to listen to.
IMO, there isn't really that much of a difference. I still sound like me.
Sure we can debate the subtle differences all day long, but they both are stunningly great sounding basses in the mix.
Someone here said if they would have played the Sadowsky in a store first they wouldn't own one.
I agree, they sound great, but something about them really comes alive in the mix more-so than by themselves.
Same with the Alleva IMO. It's the only other bass that I've owned or played that captures that same "space" in the mix.
You don't have to try to make them fit or sound great when things get going, they just do.
Now, wanna get really messed up with another good sounding "Jazz"????
Listen to "Come Together" or "Summer Time" also on my my space page.
Ken Smith 5 J-MW.
Jazz HC pick-ups and a bunch of walnut in there.
Sean Bowman is the proud owner of it right now (and give me first dibs if he sells!!
)
As much as I think my Sadowsky W/single-coils and VTC nails that Paul Turner tone, I've never even played an AC. Guy's like Ken and Mike actually own both and I trust their opinion. There must be something to all the AC hype going on around here!
MikeBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 4, 2003
- 11,943
- 3,140
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist- Suhr basses, PedalTrain, GHS, Ultimate Ears
There is a bit of "hype".
But not like a lot of others.
They are still a bit under the radar.
I would/could gig for the rest of my life with either as Ken said.
I'm not sure if given the choice, at this point if I could really be forced to say "this one is better".
Now, wanna get really messed up with another good sounding "Jazz"????
Listen to "Come Together" or "Summer Time" also on my my space page.
Ken Smith 5 J-MW.
Jazz HC pick-ups and a bunch of walnut in there.
Sean Bowman is the proud owner of it right now (and give me first dibs if he sells!!
That one goes to the grave with me!
I could easily only own that bass and be happy... but I like me some toys!
That one goes to the grave with me!
I also remember that bass fondly... that's an unusual Smith... kind of a 'Smith meets J' sort of thing that brings out the best in both those tone universes.
I hate you guys.
Just when I've decided I'm happy with my current collection and GAS-free, someone has to go posting about how great Allevas are and start pouring kerosene on my smoldering GAS fire that I was hoping was going out.
Why do I click on these threads? I must be a masochist.
I think I'd be best off if I never get the chance to try an A-C.
Just when I've decided I'm happy with my current collection and GAS-free, someone has to go posting about how great Allevas are and start pouring kerosene on my smoldering GAS fire that I was hoping was going out.
Why do I click on these threads? I must be a masochist.
I think I'd be best off if I never get the chance to try an A-C.
I'm afraid that you might not be aware of how difficult it may be to lay hands on either of those instruments in many parts of the world and I'm sure also in certain parts of America. Where I come from (Malta) I was supremely lucky to be able to try an ultra vintage model sadowsky which a friend of mine had purchased prior to myself and purely on a whim. In fact I purchased that model (rather than the vintage model) purely on the basis of the fact that I had at least tried the ultra vintage model and did not have the possibility to try the vintage model. There is an even lesser chance of me ever being able to try out an Alleva in my side of the world so very often buying sight unseen/without having tried it before is a very real necessity.
In fact (and to tie in with what ken has said), since I ordered the single coils in my bass, I was expecting more of a vintage fendery vibe (just with better construction and attention to detail). I was in fact initially disappointed with the bass because it did not meet MY expectations i.e. not fendery enough, although definitely in the jazz bass family.
Then I took it to a gig and now they'd have to pry it off me with a crowbar because I've really come to appretiate the sadowsky qualities (which are all that and a bag of chips). Love the bass
.....but still want to try an Alleva....am I sick
This is very true. I've posted above that my initial impressions of my sadowsky were that they couldn't do the old school fendery jazz bass sound. Believe it or not I wanted to try and get away from the smooth, solid foundation of a tone made by the sadowsky (again, I've since grown to love it).
However, once I started really using the controls I found that I could really approximate that sound by a combination of zero bass boost, boosting the treble control and reducing the passive tone control on the VTC. That combination really worked for me in producing more of a vintage vibe. I'm glad I choose it as an option.
People don't reliaze the power of the VTC!! That little knob is like yanking back the chain on the sadowsky and smackin' it with a rolled up newspaper. Calms the aggressive tone right down into an AC tone (IMO). I think every modern bass should come with a VTC
People don't reliaze the power of the VTC!! That little knob is like yanking back the chain on the sadowsky and smackin' it with a rolled up newspaper. Calms the aggressive tone right down into an AC tone (IMO). I think every modern bass should come with a VTC
I too love the VTC, and use it regularly with my Sadowsky. I actually use the passive tone control on the Alleva even more, since even though the LM is not as 'sizzly' as the Sadowsky, it has much more upper mid/lower treble grind than any Sadowsky I've played (single coils or HC's).
In our direct A/Bing of the Alleva LG5 and LM5 with a Sadowsky Metro RV5 with HC's and an NYC alder/maple with single coils, and my own A/Bing with my NYC RV5 with HC's, no amount of twisting knobs results in these basses sounding the same, or even that similar IMO.
Again, both great. There are very few (even among the Sadowsky lovers) who state that they can get the Sadowsky to sound like an old, passive Fender bass... I sure can't with mine. That's what the Alleva is all about, and Mike's description of a handmade active 5 string that sounds stunningly similar to a 40 year old passive 4 string hits the nail right on the head for me.
IMO and IME.
I think they come acceptably close sounding and feeling (sound feeling, not playability feeling lol) live. I played a 60s fender J live not too long after playing Nino's now relic'd sad in the same venue through my old berg IP stack about 2 nights apart. That said, I can see how they wouldn't sould super similar solo.
My live tone theory: The sad seemed to sit in the mix by having all the frequencies that the band absorbed, and then the ones that define the old J sound on top of that. The 60's J had to have a significantly higher vol setting on my rig, so it kind muscled its way through the mix like a bull instead of the surgical precision of the sad (i think the sad was in passive mode too IIRC). I could see my that fender causing me a lot of probs in certain venues, but I'm not lucky enough to own it, so i will never know
.I think they come acceptably close sounding and feeling (sound feeling, not playability feeling lol) live. I played a 60s fender J live not too long after playing Nino's now relic'd sad in the same venue through my old berg IP stack about 2 nights apart. That said, I can see how they wouldn't sould super similar solo.
My live tone theory: The sad seemed to sit in the mix by having all the frequencies that the band absorbed, and then the ones that define the old J sound on top of that. The 60's J had to have a significantly higher vol setting on my rig, so it kind muscled its way through the mix like a bull instead of the surgical precision of the sad (i think the sad was in passive mode too IIRC). I could see my that fender causing me a lot of probs in certain venues, but I'm not lucky enough to own it, so i will never know
+1 to this. As most of us who own both say, we would be pretty darn happy playing either as our only bass, and they both do have a strong 'J' character, as does the Celinder basses... just a different J character. I can still hear it in a mix, and always have an easy time with either the Sadowsky or Alleva in even the busiest mixes (the Alleva pre, which being subtle, can fix some of the issues you describe).
The Celinder is a different thing. It's so wide and deep and sizzly that you really need to put some wattage behind it to muscle that amazing 'Marcus Miller' type tone through a mix. When it happens, it's a beautiful thing, but I have had to work on it a bit in some situations, and have been buried a touch when my rig was undersized for the venue. IME!
Exactly! Just recently I discovered this by accident. I never thought that boosting the highs in conjuction with rolling back the VTC would do that. I ignored the VTC for a long time because it just sounded muddy. Now, for some fingerstyle, I boost the highs quite a bit, engage the VTC quite a bit and favor the bridge and it gives that killer midrange "thumpity bop" Jaco-ish tone.
