Aluminum Neck Club

[dtripoli]

Wow these aluminum basses look like Hot Rod basses...
That said and here's a dumb question. so be kind.
If the neck is metal does it still have or need a truss rod?
Are parts hard to find like the tuners? Which by the way, look incredibly awesome.

 

[cataract]

Wow these aluminum basses look like Hot Rod basses...
That said and here's a dumb question. so be kind.
If the neck is metal does it still have or need a truss rod?
Are parts hard to find like the tuners? Which by the way, look incredibly awesome.

Not a dumb question at all!
I think most aluminum neck builds are truss rod free, with the exception of maybe the Hartke necks pictured a few pages back (I could be wrong, but I don’t think those necks are “solid” aluminum.)

Even the Kramers with wooden inserts in the neck have enough aluminum in there to negate the need for a truss rod.

As far as parts, they’re really not super hard to source. EGC & Travis Bean are technically the same company, so if you lose a proprietary saddle for either one of those types of basses, they’re readily available. And while they also use their very own custom pickups in their instruments, they usually have some up for grabs in their Reverb shop.

Parts like tuners are standard fare (Grover, Schaller, etc.)
The necks are milled to take whichever brand & type the builders decide on.
My Obstructures came with Sperzels, which are pretty great! (And also bridge saddles from Electrical Guitar Company.)

 

[mikewalker]

Wow these aluminum basses look like Hot Rod basses...
That said and here's a dumb question. so be kind.
If the neck is metal does it still have or need a truss rod?...

I can confirm that both the Hartke and the Vaccaro both use internal truss rods. The nuts look like they might take star keys, but in fact you use a standard 1/4" hex key. It does have to be cut down to fit the small opening, though! (Larry Hartke was kind enough to send me an original one)

TRIVIA: The original Vaccaro patent application shows a "truss tension cable" but that idea was abandoned before production ever started.

 

[GIBrat51]

Cataract is correct. Neither of my Aluminum necked Kramers have - or need - a truss rod. The neck on a Kramer is a fairly thick T-beam in cross section; I'd imagine it would take a hydraulic press to bend them...

 

[LBS-bass]

I love my Kramer 650b! My very first bass was a 450b.

I used to have one of those. Sounds exactly like I remember it!

 

[mikewalker]

@GIBrat51 - how much does your duke weigh? I've been pondering getting one ...

 

[GIBrat51]

@GIBrat51 - how much does your duke weigh? I've been pondering getting one ...

Mine weighs just a hair under 8 lbs. If you want one, try to get a Duke Special - or an earlier Duke Deluxe, which is the same thing. They have Kramer's "Twin-J" pickup, which is two Dimarzio J pickups stuck together. That pickup, along with a 3-way switch and mare's nest of wiring in the control cavity, allows for some interesting pickup configurations. Also interesting; my Duke is slightly butt heavy. I have to hold the neck down a little when I play it; which is... disconcerting, until I got used to it..

 

[cataract]

Also interesting; my Duke is slightly butt heavy. I have to hold the neck down a little when I play it; which is... disconcerting, until I got used to it..

I’m surprised “butt dive” isn’t in the Top Ten Most Talkbass’ed Topics, to be honest!!
But seriously, been wanting a Duke for years now. I’d settle for a Travis Bean wedge, though.

 

[Bob_Ross]

It was originally white but turned pink from the case liner within about 5 years.

Interesting; I once saw a Travis Bean TB-2000 that was a hot pink (almost a fluorescent coral/salmon, if you can imagine that), I always assumed that was a stock color or perhaps a custom paint job...but now I wonder... ?

 

[oZZma]

Travis Bean TB1000A Custom Built For Jerry Garcia 1979 Sunburst over flamed Koa


Shall I take advantage of the 10% price drop?

 

[cataract]

Travis Bean TB1000A Custom Built For Jerry Garcia 1979 Sunburst over flamed Koa


Shall I take advantage of the 10% price drop?

That $475 shipping is a dealbreaker LOL

 

[oZZma]

That’s the way I’ve been using mine, with great results- straight into the effects return of my amp..

So you don't plug the bass into your amp and then send to the rusty box, right? And what would the result be with this configuration instead? I was thinking I may need to disengage the Rusty Box (if I buy it) occasionally on some arpeggios where I prefer a cleaner tone
My amp has an effects loop but it also has an input for external preamp, are they interchangeable?

 

[cataract]

So you don't plug the bass into your amp and then send to the rusty box, right? And what would the result be with this configuration instead? I was thinking I may need to disengage the Rusty Box (if I buy it) occasionally on some arpeggios where I prefer a cleaner tone
My amp has an effects loop but it also has an input for external preamp, are they interchangeable?

Correct- your bass always goes straight into your pedal and the pedal into your amp.
Not really interchangeable- plugging a preamp into your FX return essentially bypasses the amp’s preamp EQ.
If you’re looking to use your pedal more like a sometimes on effect, I’d plug into the amp’s front input. I’ve run the Rusty Box this way for a long while (and may actually go back to doing so, for more versatility!)

 

[oZZma]

thanks!

 

[ZachM]

Man, I have got the aluminum neck bug bad.

In a month or so, I will be moving and have found a makerspace that has a CNC machine capable of machining aluminum from billet stock. I have never done any kind of metalworking before, nor any CAD design stuff, but I am strongly tempted to try making a Travis Bean or EGC clone.

I may have to bug some of you guys for neck specifications

 

[oZZma]

Man, I have got the aluminum neck bug bad.

In a month or so, I will be moving and have found a makerspace that has a CNC machine capable of machining aluminum from billet stock. I have never done any kind of metalworking before, nor any CAD design stuff, but I am strongly tempted to try making a Travis Bean or EGC clone.

I may have to bug some of you guys for neck specifications

I wanted to make the same thing!! I have a Kramer but I wanted a lighter, better balanced bass... I'm a 3d (automotive) modeler so I could make the model for the CNC machine myself, if I had any knowledge in luthiery
If you find any useful info to make the neck, let me know!! If I had the specs It woukd be very quick and easy to make the 3d model for you too, if you want... With custom headstock design of course

 

[oZZma]

I think we need to make a C shaped neck (which would be lighter), closed on the open side by the fretboard, which is the trickiest part IMO, because you will not be able to hammer the frets into metal like if It was a wooden fretboard... This part must be VERY precise
Also the neck relief is of paramount, once it's done you can't adjust it and of it's wrong the bass
will suck

 

[ZachM]

I wanted to make the same thing!! I have a Kramer but I wanted a lighter, better balanced bass... I'm a 3d (automotive) modeler so I could make the model for the CNC machine myself, if I had any knowledge in luthiery
If you find any useful info to make the neck, let me know!! If I had the specs It woukd be very quick and easy to make the 3d model for you too, if you want... With custom headstock design of course

Awesome! I may take you up on some help there. I plan to learn to use Fusion 360 for the design stuff, since it's free for hobbyists.

Right away you would need to decide whether you want to create an aluminum neck through which attaches to a channeled wood body like the Travis Bean instruments do, or if you wanted to machine the entire neck / back pan out of a solid piece and then attach the top and fingerboard separately like how most of the EGC instruments seem to be done.

(Side note: I know that the EGC bass necks are hollow, but are the travis bean necks hollow or solid? I'm not sure.)

I feel like the Bean method would be easier to an extant and possibly less expensive, since there's less aluminum to be milled away (you would only need enough billet material for the neck and pickup channel + bridge mount). But maybe more complicated because of the wood work involved, that might be difficult.

The EGC method involves a hell of a lot more aluminum (I think they start with a 132 pound billet that ends up being three pounds!) so it's much more expensive but you could get the entire back, pickup/bridge mounting and neck in one piece. I assume then you would machine another piece for the top of the body and just screw them together.

The biggest question mark I have in mind right now is the tolerances of aluminum and what you can get away with, and maybe you have the knowledge! How thick do the walls of the neck need to be, and the fingerboard? How much material must there be for the neck/body joint to be solid? I've only found one video that shows a Bean guitar being disassembled so that is a giant question mark. Perhaps I can persuade a kind TB-2000 owner on Talkbass to take theirs apart and measure it?

If we're talking about a four string bass, the most string tension I would really expect the neck to be under is about 200lbs, so it's not a crazy high number that the neck would need to withstand.

I think se need to make a C shaped neck (which would be lighter), closed on the open side by the fretboard, which Is the trickiest part IMO, because you will nnot be able to hammer the frets into metal like if It was a wooden fretboard... This part must be VERY precise

Fingerboard attachment is one of the major pain points I am not sure how to address. The machine I would plan on using is a PRS shopbot alpha which IIRC can machine to about a .002" tolerance, which I assume is probably close enough for this application.

Ironically, from what I've been able to find, the fretting process with an aluminum fretboard is not actually much harder than a normal neck, you just have to be careful cutting the slots.

 

[ZachM]

Fingerboard relief is also a major area I have no idea how to tackle. That would need to be built into the model and machined into the fingerboard since there's no truss rod in these necks.

I know some of the old Travis Beans have zero relief. Robot Graves is a new guy making aluminum bolt-on necks and his forthcoming bass neck apparently has zero relief as well. Not sure about the EGC necks. Maybe you can build in relief by leveling the frets lower in the middle of the neck?

I think you might be able to get away with zero relief on a guitar neck, but it seems like for the bass at least a minimal amount would be necessary to keep frets 1-5 from choking out all the time, or being forced to have high action.

 

[oZZma]

Awesome! I may take you up on some help there. I plan to learn to use Fusion 360 for the design stuff, since it's free for hobbyists.

Right away you would need to decide whether you want to create an aluminum neck through which attaches to a channeled wood body like the Travis Bean instruments do, or if you wanted to machine the entire neck / back pan out of a solid piece and then attach the top and fingerboard separately like how most of the EGC instruments seem to be done.

(Side note: I know that the EGC bass necks are hollow, but are the travis bean necks hollow or solid? I'm not sure.)

I feel like the Bean method would be easier to an extant and possibly less expensive, since there's less aluminum to be milled away (you would only need enough billet material for the neck and pickup channel + bridge mount). But maybe more complicated because of the wood work involved, that might be difficult.

The EGC method involves a hell of a lot more aluminum (I think they start with a 132 pound billet that ends up being three pounds!) so it's much more expensive but you could get the entire back, pickup/bridge mounting and neck in one piece. I assume then you would machine another piece for the top of the body and just screw them together.

The biggest question mark I have in mind right now is the tolerances of aluminum and what you can get away with, and maybe you have the knowledge! How thick do the walls of the neck need to be, and the fingerboard? How much material must there be for the neck/body joint to be solid? I've only found one video that shows a Bean guitar being disassembled so that is a giant question mark. Perhaps I can persuade a kind TB-2000 owner on Talkbass to take theirs apart and measure it?

If we're talking about a four string bass, the most string tension I would really expect the neck to be under is about 200lbs, so it's not a crazy high number that the neck would need to withstand.



Fingerboard attachment is one of the major pain points I am not sure how to address. The machine I would plan on using is a PRS shopbot alpha which IIRC can machine to about a .002" tolerance, which I assume is probably close enough for this application.

Ironically, from what I've been able to find, the fretting process with an aluminum fretboard is not actually much harder than a normal neck, you just have to be careful cutting the slots.

I'm unsure about the fretting process... because unlike wood, slots with 0,000 clearance from the frets could result in frets not fitting at all Wood would loosen a bit but aluminum will not!

I wanted an EGC-style neck through but it's even more difficult to make.