Aluminum speaker cone?

[sanfe]

I've been playing bass for about two years and have been playing with these guys for almost a year. We play country-rock and oldies. The four of us play in a relatively small music room inside of a garage: acoustic guitar through PA, electric guitar through a 40w tube amp, drums, and me.

I have been playing my MIM P-bass with my fingers through the guitarist's bass rig: a GK Backline 600 into what looks like a Behringer BX1200 112 combo cab (the amp is missing), and my only issue is that something about the cab physically rattles/buzzes. But once we get going, I don't notice it.

Last month I brought with me my TC Electronic BAM200 with a TCE 2x8 cab and struggled to hear myself until I plugged in the Behringer 12" cab in series with my 2x8.

The little TCE amp is 200watts @ 4ohms and the 2x8 is 8ohms. I assumed adding the Behringer cab, whatever the ohmage it is, brought the total ohms closer to 4ohms so overall the rig was louder. I also noticed that the Behringer cab was louder if not at least more noticeable/articulate compared to the TCE 2x8 when they were running together.

Yesterday, I hauled in my GK 700RB mk2 210 combo into the music room for practice. I am pretty sure the tweeter on the amp is not connected. I don't think the speak-on cable is a four-conductor.

And I struggled to hear myself again. Frustrated at this point, I simply plugged myself back into the usual GK BL600/Behringer 112 rig and, voila, I was able to hear myself again.

I'm trying to figure out why I prefer the BL600/112 rig.

1. Having only played through the BL600/112 ever since this band's inception, I'm wondering if it's just the sound I am accustomed to, and anything else is foreign.
2. I'm wondering, having played the electric guitar for the past three decades, if I prefer the brighter, more "articulate" sound of the BL600/112 sound. I've always preferred brighter Fender singlecoil sounds over Gibson humbuckers.
3. And more objectively, I'm wondering if it's the aluminum speaker cone in that Behringer cab that's highlighting certain frequencies to make me think it's more "articulate."

If it's the aluminum speaker cone that's making the difference, then . . . well, y'know. I have to wake the gear-hording monster in me, which I highly prefer not to, and start hunting for aluminum-coned speaker cabs, and pray that I can cage the monster soon after finding what I need.

So, aluminum speaker cones, do they make a difference? They must because they exist. I think GK even has gold colored ones.

 

[Nighttrain1127]

I would ask if you are sure that both speakers in the 210 are functioning? Try the 2x8 with the backline head see if more power makes things better. Replace the tweeter in your GK rig that should help and I believe you only need that special cable if you are running a Biamp head. Under normal conditions your tweeter should work.

 

[agedhorse]

If the tweeter isn’t working in the GK, get it fixed.

I don’t recall needing to use the 4 conductor NL-4 cable for the tweeter to work in non-biamped mode.

You may simply prefer the voicing of one amp/speaker configuration over the others. I would assume it to be because of the aluminum cone, even if that’s what the marketing might encourage.

 

[mmbongo]

Did you really somehow connect the two cabs in series or did you mean parallel? If you connected them in series then you would have 12 ohms and probably very little output. If parallel you are at 2.67 ohms and I don’t think your TC is 2 ohm stable so you may be damaging it.

 

[Wasnex]

I don’t recall needing to use the 4 conductor NL-4 cable for the tweeter to work in non-biamped mode.

RB series combos don't have a crossover network or full-range mode (biamp only). A 4-conductor cable comes out of the speaker section and terminates in an NL4 that is plugged into the back of the amp.

Here is an example of what the back of the 700RB/210 mkii looks like.

Link Removed

 

[agedhorse]

RB series combos don't have a crossover network or full-range mode (biamp only). A 4-conductor cable comes out of the speaker section and terminates in an NL4 that is plugged into the back of the amp.

Here is an example of what the back of the 700RB/210 mkii looks like.

I thought that the combo was the same head slid into the slot in the top of the combo. If that's not true, disregard my comment, thought I would still recommend fixing the tweeter or the amp if the problem is due to something other than the tweeter.

 

[sanfe]

Did you really somehow connect the two cabs in series or did you mean parallel? If you connected them in series then you would have 12 ohms and probably very little output. If parallel you are at 2.67 ohms and I don’t think your TC is 2 ohm stable so you may be damaging it.

Oh shoot, you're right. I connected the Behringer 112 to the back of the 2x8 cab, not the amp (there is no second output on the amp). So it must've been in series, which should've presumably yielded 12 ohms. Shoot, now I don't know. What is that second jack for on the back of the 2x8 cab anyway?

 

[sanfe]

Agedslow and Wasnex, I admittedly have fewer than two hours on the 700RBii. I bought it for really cheap and was told that I was buying it as-is. I am not familiar with it at all except for its weight. I just took it out of my car and carted it into my garage earlier today. I will have to scrutinize the speaker cable and the tweeter functionality the next time I pull it out.

I did make sure both speakers were working at practice yesterday. I was told by the seller that he had replaced the speakers. The 700RBii, if anything, is loud. My daughter played through it on the outdoor quad for her high school jazz band and I heard her loud and clear about 100 feet away.

But as of now, based on my limited experience, I am preferring the guitarist's BL600/112 rig over any amp I brought to practice.

I will try plugging the BL600 into the TC 2x8 next time.

Thanks everyone for your input. I don't want to get too involved with gear with my bass playing, but this lack-of-clarity issue I'm having with my amps in that room bummed me out yesterday.

 

[agedhorse]

Oh shoot, you're right. I connected the Behringer 112 to the back of the 2x8 cab, not the amp (there is no second output on the amp). So it must've been in series, which should've presumably yielded 12 ohms. Shoot, now I don't know. What is that second jack for on the back of the 2x8 cab anyway?

No, that's not how it works, still a parallel connection.

If the Behringer speaker is 4 ohms, you are on your way to discovering how much it will cost to fix an amp.

Also, since you seem to be having some difficulty understanding this stuff, I think it's critical for you to understand that you NEVER want to plug 2 amps together accidentally by trying to interconnect 2 different systems (combo or separates). That's another way to discover the true cost of amp repair.

 

[Wasnex]

Agedslow and Wasnex, I admittedly have fewer than two hours on the 700RBii. I bought it for really cheap and was told that I was buying it as-is. I am not familiar with it at all except for its weight. I just took it out of my car and carted it into my garage earlier today. I will have to scrutinize the speaker cable and the tweeter functionality the next time I pull it out.

I did make sure both speakers were working at practice yesterday. I was told by the seller that he had replaced the speakers. The 700RBii, if anything, is loud. My daughter played through it on the outdoor quad for her high school jazz band and I heard her loud and clear about 100 feet away.

But as of now, based on my limited experience, I am preferring the guitarist's BL600/112 rig over any amp I brought to practice.

I will try plugging the BL600 into the TC 2x8 next time.

Thanks everyone for your input. I don't want to get too involved with gear with my bass playing, but this lack-of-clarity issue I'm having with my amps in that room bummed me out yesterday.

The GK tweeter is crossed over at 5khz. You may not hear it if you like a dark tone. Also, if the Tweeter master is not turned up, no power is sent to the tweeter.

As far is which sounds better...that depends on your personal taste. Ask someone else and they might pick a different combination of gear.

 

[basscooker]

A gk amp through a hartke aluminum cone cab was THE sound for a hot minute.

 

[mmbongo]

Oh shoot, you're right. I connected the Behringer 112 to the back of the 2x8 cab, not the amp (there is no second output on the amp). So it must've been in series, which should've presumably yielded 12 ohms. Shoot, now I don't know. What is that second jack for on the back of the 2x8 cab anyway?

It's a parallel connection for a 2nd cab, so yes you're at 2.67 ohms.

 

[RollCats]

Aluminum speakers can slice through a mix with certain frequencies IME. And the way the combo cab is oriented allows you to hear yourself better.

if you prefer the ‘tone’ of your TC mini stack or GK combo, get them closer to your ears and you’ll hear yourself a lot better.

Did your band mates comment on any perceived volume differences between the sessions?

 

[Thumpin6string]

RB series combos don't have a crossover network or full-range mode (biamp only). A 4-conductor cable comes out of the speaker section and terminates in an NL4 that is plugged into the back of the amp.

Here is an example of what the back of the 700RB/210 mkii looks like.

Link Removed

The cab may be wired for biamp, but the combo is the exact same head without the metal top cover. I have the 1001RB from a combo and found a top for it. It does both biamp and non-biamp. That 700RB should blow the doors off the Backline 600 and cab, unless there is something wrong with it.

 

[sawzalot]

So, the 112 combo cab is a wedge pointed at your ears. You’d naturally be able to hear that better than the others, unless you’re also tilting the GK back as well. Just a thought.

 

[InkCow]

I've been playing bass for about two years and have been playing with these guys for almost a year. We play country-rock and oldies. The four of us play in a relatively small music room inside of a garage: acoustic guitar through PA, electric guitar through a 40w tube amp, drums, and me.

I have been playing my MIM P-bass with my fingers through the guitarist's bass rig: a GK Backline 600 into what looks like a Behringer BX1200 112 combo cab (the amp is missing), and my only issue is that something about the cab physically rattles/buzzes. But once we get going, I don't notice it.

Last month I brought with me my TC Electronic BAM200 with a TCE 2x8 cab and struggled to hear myself until I plugged in the Behringer 12" cab in series with my 2x8.

The little TCE amp is 200watts @ 4ohms and the 2x8 is 8ohms. I assumed adding the Behringer cab, whatever the ohmage it is, brought the total ohms closer to 4ohms so overall the rig was louder. I also noticed that the Behringer cab was louder if not at least more noticeable/articulate compared to the TCE 2x8 when they were running together.

Yesterday, I hauled in my GK 700RB mk2 210 combo into the music room for practice. I am pretty sure the tweeter on the amp is not connected. I don't think the speak-on cable is a four-conductor.

And I struggled to hear myself again. Frustrated at this point, I simply plugged myself back into the usual GK BL600/Behringer 112 rig and, voila, I was able to hear myself again.

I'm trying to figure out why I prefer the BL600/112 rig.

1. Having only played through the BL600/112 ever since this band's inception, I'm wondering if it's just the sound I am accustomed to, and anything else is foreign.
2. I'm wondering, having played the electric guitar for the past three decades, if I prefer the brighter, more "articulate" sound of the BL600/112 sound. I've always preferred brighter Fender singlecoil sounds over Gibson humbuckers.
3. And more objectively, I'm wondering if it's the aluminum speaker cone in that Behringer cab that's highlighting certain frequencies to make me think it's more "articulate."

If it's the aluminum speaker cone that's making the difference, then . . . well, y'know. I have to wake the gear-hording monster in me, which I highly prefer not to, and start hunting for aluminum-coned speaker cabs, and pray that I can cage the monster soon after finding what I need.

So, aluminum speaker cones, do they make a difference? They must because they exist. I think GK even has gold colored ones.

There are a lot of red flags here: at 4 ohms, I think the Backline is almost certainly way too powerful for the poor Behringer. The combo it was originally paired with was only 120 watts, the GK is more than twice that.
Like others have said, you can’t run both the BC208 and the Behringer off of the BAM200, but the Behringer would give you the full 200 watts (still questionable for that driver, but at least it’s closer).
Lastly, the person you bought the 700RB said that they replaced the speakers? Did they replace them with the same drivers?

 

[Wasnex]

The cab may be wired for biamp, but the combo is the exact same head without the metal top cover. I have the 1001RB from a combo and found a top for it. It does both biamp and non-biamp. That 700RB should blow the doors off the Backline 600 and cab, unless there is something wrong with it.
View attachment 5033842

I'll try to be a bit more precise.

The amp in my combo has no lid, feet, or rack rails. Perhaps the chassis is complete otherwise. However, it's 17 7/8" wide, and AFAIK this not is the standard width for a Mk1 amp.

From the OM:

So AFAIK, the chassis of my amp is 7/8" wider than a standard 700RB head. I suppose I could figure out how to mount it in some sort of headcase if I really wanted to use it separately, but I don't

The amp in my combo is functionally identical to a regular 700RB head. It does biamp or full range...the cabinet is biamp only. So if I want to use the horn in my combo, I have to turn up the tweeter master. The cabinet does not include the normal passive crossover or biamp/full range switch that is found in the standalone RBH cabs and series I-III Neo cabs...so I can't drive the tweeter off the amp's full-range output! However, I can send a full range signal to the woofer if I don't want to use the tweeter.

 

[agedhorse]

Because this model lasted through a long production life, with some revisions, there may very well be differences between versions.

 

[Wasnex]

Because this model lasted through a long production life, with some revisions, there may very well be differences between versions.

Mk1 700RB/112
Link Removed
Mk2 700RB/112
Link Removed

 

[Thumpin6string]

I'll try to be a bit more precise.

The amp in my combo has no lid, feet, or rack rails. Perhaps the chassis is complete otherwise. However, it's 17 7/8" wide, and AFAIK this not is the standard width for a Mk1 amp.

From the OM:
View attachment 5033863

So AFAIK, the chassis of my amp is 7/8" wider than a standard 700RB head. I suppose I could figure out how to mount it in some sort of headcase if I really wanted to use it separately, but I don't

The amp in my combo is functionally identical to a regular 700RB head. It does biamp or full range...the cabinet is biamp only. So if I want to use the horn in my combo, I have to turn up the tweeter master. The cabinet does not include the normal passive crossover or biamp/full range switch that is found in the standalone RBH cabs and series I-III Neo cabs...so I can't drive the tweeter off the amp's full-range output! However, I can send a full range signal to the woofer if I don't want to use the tweeter.

Like I said, the 1001RB in my pic was out of a 210 combo that looked identical to yours and it had no feet, no rails and no lid too. The lid came from a standard 700RB. So the amp and chassis are the same, but like you pointed out, the cab is biamp only. GK made only one chassis which was used for the Backline, the first series 400rb, the 700rb and the 1001rb. The only difference were the holes for the preamp and back panel and the artwork. The combo amp chassis can be used with a standard cab if desired.