Always-on Fuzz for classic rock? Anybody do this successfully?

[ThinCrappyTone2]

I like a dirty tone in the mix. My base underlying tone is always a bit dirty and I almost never go for clean-clean in a live setting (studio recording is a totally different matter). Then I add more drive as needed within the context of each song, from dirty boost to overdrive to full on fuzz.

To answer your specific questions directly:

1. Depends on the sound guy and his competency in tuning a dirty bass signal in the FOH system. Could vary from room to room.
2. Doubt it. Once you get guitars and cymbals going, I usually find that some grit on the bass helps it all gel together.
3. Perhaps. Maybe start by putting your HP/LPF after the fuzz. If you have access to any kind of headphone amp, try listening to your DI signal and tuning it with the LPF with headphones, then see how that sounds back through your stage rig.

Thanks for the feedback, @NKBassman ! These are very good points, insights and suggestions.

Re the filter, I have been keeping the LP/HP filter before the comp, so big sub-low frequencies don't trigger the compression to kick in, but I think there is a really strong argument for experimenting with placing it after the fuzz, as you suggest, especially to tame the highs, which could get nasty through a full range FOH system. I assume (not sure if correctly) that rolling off the highs is a part of what cab sims are doing anyway. I know there is more to it, but a LPF after the fuzz might do the trick for my purposes, and make it so I don't need a cab sim.

Monitoring with phones is a great idea as well, for getting a better sense of how it will come across through the full range foh system. Will definitely try that.

Thanks again! Good stuff.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

I like a fuzzy bass.

I remember reading an interview with Geezer Butler about the recording of the "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" album. He related how he started out with the the Fuzz on for every track. After a while Tony and the rest of the band began to sabotage him. They removed the fuzz unit, which he promptly replaced, and finally they removed the strings from his studio basses in protest.

Geezer jokingly said he finally got the message.

Ya gotta love it!

That's pretty hilarious

 

[Zoffy]

I have three Pro Co RAT pedals and one of them is always on my pedal board (I know, distortion not fuzz). 90% of the time my RAT is on with the distortion set to 8 o'clock and the filter set to 4 or 5 o'clock. When everyone is playing, it sounds really good (to my ears). IMHO For the money, it's hard to beat a RAT.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

I have three Pro Co RAT pedals and one of them is always on my pedal board (I know, distortion not fuzz). 90% of the time my RAT is on with the distortion set to 8 o'clock and the filter set to 4 or 5 o'clock. When everyone is playing, it sounds really good (to my ears). IMHO For the money, it's hard to beat a RAT.

Y'know in all my years I have not tried a Rat on Bass. Perhaps it is time!

 

[NKBassman]

Thanks for the feedback, @NKBassman ! These are very good points, insights and suggestions.

Re the filter, I have been keeping the LP/HP filter before the comp, so big sub-low frequencies don't trigger the compression to kick in, but I think there is a really strong argument for experimenting with placing it after the fuzz, as you suggest, especially to tame the highs, which could get nasty through a full range FOH system. I assume (not sure if correctly) that rolling off the highs is a part of what cab sims are doing anyway. I know there is more to it, but a LPF after the fuzz might do the trick for my purposes, and make it so I don't need a cab sim.

Monitoring with phones is a great idea as well, for getting a better sense of how it will come across through the full range foh system. Will definitely try that.

Thanks again! Good stuff.

Rolling off the high end is probably about 90% of what a cab sim is doing .

 

[Doug P]

I saw a clip ( maybe u-tube ) that took the bass out of the mix and showed how many songs had the bass somewhat "dirty" / fuzz / overdriven….. whatever.
Unless you use in ears, walk out into the venue during soundcheck to hear the total mix. Things might "change" once the crowd is in but ???
I use a Radial 48 Amp DI.

 

[scottfeldstein]

If I had a rock set in front of me I would turn to my Sansamp YYZ. I have it set like this:

• Drive: 11 o'clock
• Bass: zero
• Mid: max
• Treb: zero
• Mix: 11 o'clock
• Tight: in

It's just enough to give me some crunch and I can't figure out why, but it's also giving me this kinda scooped, cab sim VT sorta tone. This I would keep on the entire set.

If I really needed to fuzz out as an effect I would kick on the Aftershock. Middling settings and the Heavy preset.

 

[jdjk7]

I play in a classic and modern rock cover band and only use fuzz for a few songs. But dang it sounds good to me.

What I find is that I don't really notice the dirtyness of the fuzz when the whole band is playing. It just sort of sits in the mix just nice, and has a big full impact without seeming overly distorted.

When the bass is soloed though, it's very fuzzy. Almost extreme. Seems inappropriate for what we are doing. Almost Lemmy territory. But in the mix, I love it.

For reference, this is the signal chain:
• Passive Soapbar humbuckers
• LP/HP filter (set at 35hz and 5k)
• Wampler Ego Mini compressor, set relatively gently, with clean blended about 60%
• EHX Bass Big Muff Pi in "clean blend" mode, fuzz at noon
• Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 (has a tube in preamp, set pretty gainy)
• A pair of Genz Benz NeoX 12T ported 12" speakers, tweeters turned off

So I'm thinking of trying to have it always on, but since I have not yet tried this in a gig situation, only at rehearsal, I am concerned about a few things. All of them come down to my personal perception standing in front of the amp vs the reality of how it will sound to the audience.

Concerns:
1) How will it sound Di'd through front of house?
2) Similarly, does it only sound good in the onstage mix, standing 2 feet in front of the amp?
3) Should I consider using a cab sim for FOH?

My question is, are any of you all using fuzz all the time, in a classic rock band setting? How has it been received, if so?

Another consideration, I do love the tone of Dusty Hill's bass, which is pretty heavy and dirty, IMO, on songs like "Cheap Sunglasses".

Thank you for any info, insights, experience, advice and thoughts.

I would consider using a cab sim for FOH. The sizzling top end on a lot of fuzzes, bass or guitar, bothers the hell out of me unless it's tamed. Move the LPF/HPF from the front of the pedal chain to just before the DI and this would do the trick. Having read the comment about the compressor and the LP/HPF, I think the answer might just be a different compressor with a built-in HPF. They exist and they are a godsend for bass. YMMV.

I think whether to fuzz or not to fuzz for classic rock depends highly on what you're playing. For stuff like Cream, it's totally appropriate-- Jack Bruce is pretty much the father of bass fuzz. He wasn't the first to do it, but he was the first to do it prolifically and well.

In my blues/rock band, fuzz is definitely a thing where if I don't execute it perfectly in terms of how much it stands out, the other bandmates kinda turn up their noses. They're alright with overdrive and distortion, but they don't like the harshness of fuzz. In my all-original grunge rock band, fuzz or distortion is very nearly almost on-- I only turn it off for quite parts, sometimes off in the verse/on in the chorus type thing.

I also relate to the experience that it sounds too extreme on its own, but in a mix it sounds fine. I have a Brassmaster fuzz clone, and when I first got it, I thought, "Yeesh, this sounds harsh, I don't know if I'll use this too much". But then on a whim I took it to a fill-in gig with a Black Keys-y blues rock band, and it sounded shaging excellent with distorted guitars over top of it. Almost makes me want two of them.

 

[Cave Puppy]

I could leave my EHX Bass Soul Food on all the time. I love how that thing sounds. That isn't a fuzz pedal per se. That said - I send a DI to FOH straight from my board and send a parallel signal to my amp. I either have a passive DI or a Tech 21 Bass VT DI for this purpose. Reason being the DI on my amp is master volume related.

 

[NKBassman]

I also relate to the experience that it sounds too extreme on its own, but in a mix it sounds fine. I have a Brassmaster fuzz clone, and when I first got it, I thought, "Yeesh, this sounds harsh, I don't know if I'll use this too much". But then on a whim I took it to a fill-in gig with a Black Keys-y blues rock band, and it sounded shaging excellent with distorted guitars over top of it. Almost makes me want two of them.

If you're referring to a Broughton Maestro then I am LOLing, because playing along to Black Keys songs was the only context where I found I actually liked that pedal before I sold it.

Subbing in the house band at a local jam night a while back, I accidently left a fuzz on for the first verse/chorus of Little Sister (Elvis). Definitely transformed it into sounding more like a Black Keys song than an Elvis tune. I thought it sounded cool, but the band leader disagreed.

 

[mikewalker]

For me, rock music bass should always have at least a little grit/drive. Actually it's super rare for me to want true "clean" bass tone, even playing jazz. I can think of about 4 times in the last 40 years that I intentionally recorded a truly clean bass sound...

 

[57pbass]

If I'm looking for some dirt I usually use the gain control to overdrive the tube in the preamp… that works perfectly for my needs. I can get a desired result with my master volume on my bass .. I don't use any pedals.

 

[Benji bassman]

I don't play classic rock, but I have used my big muff for entire gigs with my musicmaster bass. The musicmaster can sound a little thin, but the big muff definitely bolsters the sound. If I was playing a p or something, I think it might be a little much.

 

[n!k]

I like a fuzzy bass.

I remember reading an interview with Geezer Butler about the recording of the "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" album. He related how he started out with the the Fuzz on for every track. After a while Tony and the rest of the band began to sabotage him. They removed the fuzz unit, which he promptly replaced, and finally they removed the strings from his studio basses in protest.

Geezer jokingly said he finally got the message.

Ya gotta love it!

He's a great example of why distorted bass is good, in a roundabout way. If you listen to his isolated bass recordings, especially on the first two albums, he's driving a tube head and getting a little saturation and tube compression. In Master of Reality and beyond he upped the gain and is a little more distorted, but in all cases he would probably say he recorded "clean," plugging straight into an old Laney or recording console. I was listening to their most recent live recording called The End and Geezer is crystal clear, absolutely sparkling clean bass and it is so distracting! It sounds so hi-fi next to Iommi sounding very distorted that they don't blend together at all. It's obviously an opinion thing but there's a gradient between "cut through mix" and "sound cohesive" that degrees of drive and fuzz make sense on.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

I would consider using a cab sim for FOH. The sizzling top end on a lot of fuzzes, bass or guitar, bothers the hell out of me unless it's tamed. Move the LPF/HPF from the front of the pedal chain to just before the DI and this would do the trick. Having read the comment about the compressor and the LP/HPF, I think the answer might just be a different compressor with a built-in HPF. They exist and they are a godsend for bass. YMMV.

I think whether to fuzz or not to fuzz for classic rock depends highly on what you're playing. For stuff like Cream, it's totally appropriate-- Jack Bruce is pretty much the father of bass fuzz. He wasn't the first to do it, but he was the first to do it prolifically and well.

In my blues/rock band, fuzz is definitely a thing where if I don't execute it perfectly in terms of how much it stands out, the other bandmates kinda turn up their noses. They're alright with overdrive and distortion, but they don't like the harshness of fuzz. In my all-original grunge rock band, fuzz or distortion is very nearly almost on-- I only turn it off for quite parts, sometimes off in the verse/on in the chorus type thing.

I also relate to the experience that it sounds too extreme on its own, but in a mix it sounds fine. I have a Brassmaster fuzz clone, and when I first got it, I thought, "Yeesh, this sounds harsh, I don't know if I'll use this too much". But then on a whim I took it to a fill-in gig with a Black Keys-y blues rock band, and it sounded shaging excellent with distorted guitars over top of it. Almost makes me want two of them.

Thanks @jdjk7 , that's some great feedback and real world experience info. Much to ponder!

 

[jdjk7]

If you're referring to a Broughton Maestro then I am LOLing, because playing along to Black Keys songs was the only context where I found I actually liked that pedal before I sold it.

Subbing in the house band at a local jam night a while back, I accidently left a fuzz on for the first verse/chorus of Little Sister (Elvis). Definitely transformed it into sounding more like a Black Keys song than an Elvis tune. I thought it sounded cool, but the band leader disagreed.

Yep. I think the adjustment comes because the gain control effectively is the tone control, and I started to like the Maestro's tones a lot more when I turned the gain down below noon or 11.

Thanks @jdjk7 , that's some great feedback and real world experience info. Much to ponder!

If you find yourself using a lot of fuzz, it can be a good idea to have a few different flavors. I have a few on my bigger board, and I like to play around with using different fuzzes in different sections to experiment with how they sit in the mix. Sometimes it's a Big Muff day, sometimes it's a Brassmaster day, etc.