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Am I a 'Brand name' snob?
- Thread starter TheDepths
- Start date
My thinking is that you get what you pay for, particularly with musical instruments and gear. My (current) band plays over 200 shows a year going on about a decade now. Gear that lasts and is road worthy is my vocation. In my experience, the higher end stuff (usually) last longer due to better build and/or components. I've played with some phenomenal musicians who went the cheaper route, and while their tone/playing was great, there was always something wrong with their gear that wouldn't happen had they spent the extra dough. Just thinking out loud.
A confusion most folks who have never been to these 'overseas' countries suffer from.
Plenty of folks making instruments in Korea (lived there 03-08) or here in China have excellent jobs. Certainly a better earning to cost of living ratio than many jobs back home. I know what my cooks made back home..what my friends made in factories. Folks here have a better gig, provided housing and meals...
Laughable how folks in the west still buy into decades old rumour and myths. Come to a manufacturing city like here in Chongqing (30 million folks) or Guandong...find me a 'child worker' find me these folks earning slave wages...just isnt like that
It's the cold war propaganda mentality, except applied to the next big economic threat, China.
LONG LIVE AMURICA 
The best music store in my area has fender, musicman, Ric, Gibson (meh), ibanez, mtd kinsgston, and other stuff.
The 3rd best playing bass that I played there, IMO, was a... used SX. Yup. I was surprised, even after having very high expectations based on what I've read about them. To be fair, it was completely upgraded (hipshot tuners and bridge, nice flats- I think they were thomastik, and the pups seemed replaced, but I'm not sure) and well set up. It was a clear ash j bass w/maple fretboard, and they were only asking $189 for it, seriously. While I don't prefer maple boards and I think the SX headstock is fugly, those weren't the reasons I didn't buy it. (Ok, who's jumping up and down right now screaming "why the h3ll didn't you buy that????1?"). The only reason I didn't buy it is because it weighed a TON. I'm guessing over 11 lbs, easy. I could tell that it wasn't swamp ash, but rather the heavy heavy northern ash. WAY too heavy for me. I could've bought it just for the hardware, but I don't need more guitar parts lying around my house, and I already have enough projects waiting for me to get around to.
So, Cheap SX, I was impressed.
If you folks are wondering what the 2 best playing basses at this store were, IMO:
1. Roscoe century 5 string. Probably the best action I've played. (Didn't buy it because I don't like 35" scale basses and I prefer alnico single coils over Bart humbuckers)
2. Carvin LB70. Very well made. This one had options that I didn't like, and was a little worn. I'm likely to be ordering a carvin sb4001 with the options I prefer (won't bore you with THOSE details in this thread)
The 3rd best playing bass that I played there, IMO, was a... used SX. Yup. I was surprised, even after having very high expectations based on what I've read about them. To be fair, it was completely upgraded (hipshot tuners and bridge, nice flats- I think they were thomastik, and the pups seemed replaced, but I'm not sure) and well set up. It was a clear ash j bass w/maple fretboard, and they were only asking $189 for it, seriously. While I don't prefer maple boards and I think the SX headstock is fugly, those weren't the reasons I didn't buy it. (Ok, who's jumping up and down right now screaming "why the h3ll didn't you buy that????1?"). The only reason I didn't buy it is because it weighed a TON. I'm guessing over 11 lbs, easy. I could tell that it wasn't swamp ash, but rather the heavy heavy northern ash. WAY too heavy for me. I could've bought it just for the hardware, but I don't need more guitar parts lying around my house, and I already have enough projects waiting for me to get around to.
So, Cheap SX, I was impressed.
If you folks are wondering what the 2 best playing basses at this store were, IMO:
1. Roscoe century 5 string. Probably the best action I've played. (Didn't buy it because I don't like 35" scale basses and I prefer alnico single coils over Bart humbuckers)
2. Carvin LB70. Very well made. This one had options that I didn't like, and was a little worn. I'm likely to be ordering a carvin sb4001 with the options I prefer (won't bore you with THOSE details in this thread)
Hey, pal, the people who run China suck and so do their human rights policies. I'm acutely aware that the USA has its failings, but our hands are still cleaner than theirs. I'm a left-leaning guy, but I believe in putting your money where your mouth is and supporting the things you love. So I'll just go on buying American, even if you think it's quaint and "laughable." Besides, I like USA products a lot more than Chinese knockoffs (often downright thefts) of American products.
Who said anything about America's hands? No reason to be defensive pal - America is great..in fact America is one of the few countries that get the 'knee-jerk' 'what I have heard' negative reaction (from folks that have never lived or done business there) on the same level as China.
Certainly nobody suggested buying American or buying what you love was laughable..what I suggested was laughable is how blindly folks buy in to old ideas about what China is or Korea is..or the notion that everything (or even a majority) made, bought or sold over here is a knock-off or rip off of an American product..just not so. Massive population, different wants and needs and very different culture result in different market demands.
Korea is not poor, not developing - they are a first world economic powerhouse - their labor unions are some of the most powerful in the developed world and many factories offer excellent jobs (that are guaranteed for life) Cor-Tek simply opted to move to an area that offered better tax breaks, more affordable labor and higher profit margins (like say a major Automobile manufacturer leaving Michigan for Mexico). Seoul is advanced beyond all but a handful of western cities. The population has one of the world's highest education and literacy rates. This is not a country of oppressed child or slave labourers.
China is developing still...but well on the way - Incredibly fast growing middle-class due mainly to the manufacturing boom and the excellent jobs it has created. The west of the country hasn't reached the development level of the east yet and that is why the government is spending so much money developing western locations like CQ and trying to make them appealing destinations for development. This city reminds me of the factory cities in Canada from my youth...but on a MUCH bigger scale. Majority of the population earning an excellent living in factories, the city in great shape with exploding residential areas and rapid retail development. Sure it leads to too many Starbucks - but hey the average Chinese has just as much right to spend $4 on a latte as anyone else - and they can and do.
China's leaders and policies 'suck'? Funny that is awfully similar to what the average late teen-early 20s mis-informed Korean used to say about the states...I always asked them which leaders and policies they found to be the 'suckiest' during their research? Other than a reactive 'Bush' they rarely could come up with anything concrete as it was often based on malarkey and xenophobia...
Where you live. In BC, used Americans (of any type) still go for about $100 below new.
Don't feel too bad, we pay a lot more in the first place, American Standard P over here is £1066 so $1776, compared to $1299 from Sweetwater, even an American Special P is still £820/$1366.
I definitely used to be a bit snobby about stuff but i think its from when I was a lot younger and comparing things like squier to fender was difficult as I had only played the cheapest of the cheap squier versus my teachers top of the range vintage fender. Obviously there is a huge difference there and as that from your starting point as an impressionable teen it just happens. when everyones got to be for or against something. I remember loving certain bands and hating others when realitically they sounded incredibly similar. When you're a teenager you just have to be a snob about things to pretend you have an opinion.
Now not so much. The guitarist in my band was looking to upgrade and found that tokai made a much nicer and more affordable strat then the fender ones we tried out. Got a great guitar and saved a load of money. I also find that I genuinely prefer my yamaha pacifica cheapo guitar to most american made fenders so my opinion has been modified to appreciate different names ont he headstock now.
I did however buy a 4003 but that was 1) because its amazing 2) an investment (though i'll never actually sell it) 3) i wanted something reliablel that wouldnt fail on me. (the tokai needs some work done on the electronics every few years whereas my Ric has never let me down).
Now as Im looking for something to add to my Ric im not focusing on getting something with a fancy name on the headstock. In fact as much as I would like an American fender P they are so ridiculously expensive in the UK I dont think i'll get one when I know that there are some amazing cheaper versions out there. Its not worth the name on a headstock for a couple of hundred ££ extra.
Now not so much. The guitarist in my band was looking to upgrade and found that tokai made a much nicer and more affordable strat then the fender ones we tried out. Got a great guitar and saved a load of money. I also find that I genuinely prefer my yamaha pacifica cheapo guitar to most american made fenders so my opinion has been modified to appreciate different names ont he headstock now.
I did however buy a 4003 but that was 1) because its amazing 2) an investment (though i'll never actually sell it) 3) i wanted something reliablel that wouldnt fail on me. (the tokai needs some work done on the electronics every few years whereas my Ric has never let me down).
Now as Im looking for something to add to my Ric im not focusing on getting something with a fancy name on the headstock. In fact as much as I would like an American fender P they are so ridiculously expensive in the UK I dont think i'll get one when I know that there are some amazing cheaper versions out there. Its not worth the name on a headstock for a couple of hundred ££ extra.
I'm a brand name snob. That is why I have 3 Squier basses. What? Not what you expected me to say?
Is a Squier the same as an American Fender? No. But, is an American Fender worth MY extra cash? IMHO....no. I'd rather have the 3 Squier VM basses in different colors and configs than have just 1 bass. I own them. I play them. I gig with them.
Would I change the label on headstock to hide from ridicule? Never. My basses are Squiers. I'm not ashamed of that.
Is a Squier the same as an American Fender? No. But, is an American Fender worth MY extra cash? IMHO....no. I'd rather have the 3 Squier VM basses in different colors and configs than have just 1 bass. I own them. I play them. I gig with them.
Would I change the label on headstock to hide from ridicule? Never. My basses are Squiers. I'm not ashamed of that.
Typo? Or is my logic sense not working today? If you only have (with one exception) basses made from 1983 through today, how does that make you a _vintage_ snob? If you have newer basses?
/brainfart
This is a healthy attitude. It's really how we should all feel about what we play - from a $299 Squier to a $9,000 Fodera.
I think where basses are concerned, there are different types of snobs! There are those who favor "name brand" basses over the less esteemed brands; there are the bassists who like boutique, hand-made bassists from individual shops; finally, there are bassists who seem to think that if some famous bassist played an instrument, it's worth thousands more.
I'm in the middle category, I think, as I really value the individual approach that a great designer/maker of instruments brings, and because I value craftsmanship at a high level for its own sake. But my main fretted bass is a cheap, Ibanez RD500, which I love, and I've played a Godin A4 for years; I had great luck with Yamahas, too.
I honestly don't care about the whole Fender vs Gibson thing or "this or that famous bassist owned this instrument" bit. When guitarists get to talking about getting hold of Brian Wilson's old Tele, I just have to roll my eyes.
I'm in the middle category, I think, as I really value the individual approach that a great designer/maker of instruments brings, and because I value craftsmanship at a high level for its own sake. But my main fretted bass is a cheap, Ibanez RD500, which I love, and I've played a Godin A4 for years; I had great luck with Yamahas, too.
I honestly don't care about the whole Fender vs Gibson thing or "this or that famous bassist owned this instrument" bit. When guitarists get to talking about getting hold of Brian Wilson's old Tele, I just have to roll my eyes.
You have a lot more variance in quality with VM and CV Squiers as opposed to MIA Fenders. My Squier VM 70's RI Jazz has been meticulously set up by me and has had a pickup (Dimarzio Model Js in series)/preamp (Audere 4-band Z mode preamp) upgrade on it too. The bass sounds fantastic and feels great, I've played MIM or other $500-$900 Fender basses that didn't feel any different from mine. Played a few MIAs that felt about the same too. Of course I've picked up absolutely atrocious CVs and VMs that were unplayable, same with some MIMs. MIAs probably have more stability in terms of neck warpage and probably better fret dressing, but that's about it IME. Some people get down big time to aesthetics (wood grain quality, number of knots, finish quality) but it's not my cup of tea. If I want something gorgeous, I typically go after the coffee table basses...I love a natural finish! 
I'd much rather buy a cheaper bass, mod/set it up myself, and keep the extra money. YMMV.
I'd much rather buy a cheaper bass, mod/set it up myself, and keep the extra money. YMMV.
