Am I Being Played?

[lostcontrol_]

WOW! 7 pages of dead horse beatings including a few floggings that start with, "don't want to beat a dead horse" right before the whip comes out! Awesome.

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but... ;D

Whoa, either the lot of you have had tons of bad/unlucky experiences, rehearse in shifty places or simply don't trust people. That, or I've just been lucky with people & gear for the past 5(?) years, even with people rotating. We have four bands in our rehearsal space (of which one uses the place mostly for storage), I play in two of them. I let people use my gear (GenzBenz GBE750 + SWR 6x10 cab, backup rig, a bunch of mics + audio interface), even basses and pedals on occasion.

The only conditions I have are that
- I know who uses my gear and when
- everything is put back to their place
- everything is ready to go if I have a gig / rehearsal and nothing leaves the place, _ever_
- everyone's upfront about something breaking / sounding weird.
- if you don't know how to use it, ask first or don't touch it.
The only "holy" thing are my pedal settings, mess with them and I'll drop on your a** like bombs on Hiroshima. Wear and tear isn't much of an issue, as people respect each others' gear

We have good security and have agreed that alcohol etc. should be consumed elsewhere. All bands are amateurs with decent day jobs (i.e. enough to cover anything breaking) and no one is of the "just turned 18 and I'm a punk/rock/metal god" / shady flake / addict -type. In the past five-ish years the only thing that's been broken is a single string, which was replaced by a full set of my favourites.

The reasons I'm ok with people using my gear are:
- Space is limited. If we'd have 4x guitar gear, 3x large/medium bass rigs, 3x drums etc. in there... no thanks.
- Even if I had a car, lugging all of my gear back home on a weekly basis... no thanks.
- It's mutual. I get to use other peoples gear if necessary, applying the same conditions if nothing else.

And I pay an equal share (29 euros/mo).

With different circumstances or gear that would break down easily, it might be different. In any case I'm happy with the current state of affairs and don't feel like I'm being used, at all.

I guess your experience may vary

 

[stacker]

When I used to play, using someone else's rig was taboo; it wasn't even discussed, you didn't even ask! But then that was a long time ago! I used to pop the fuse and its holder out of the Acoustic 330 head I had in those days but that didn't stop the other band who shared the room using it. I ended up having to take it away.

On gigs, I recall bassists rocking up and spitting the dummy bigstyle when I refused to let them use my rig. My biggest regret - where I was most definitely used - was lending a bassist my Status Series II as his Wal had packed in. The bastard made a right mess of it and, when his band's spot was over, left it lying against the wall in their dressing room. That was the end of 'sharing', unless the backline was hired in.

 

[Omega Monkey]

There are 3 or 4 logical solutions that I can see to this situation.

1) You can continue to leave your stuff there (not the bass though, jesus!), but get the other bassists to pay you like $60/each per month to "rent" it. They will probably balk at this and choose to bring their own stuff. This has the obvious benefit of defraying the cost of depreciation on your gear from the extra usage, as well as eliminating your cost for the space. Feel free to negotiate a rate that works for everyone, but at a minimum your use of the space should be covered.

2) Everyone rotates each month. With 4 bassists, each person's rig would only get 3 months of use on it per year. If someone doesn't have a rig or has one that isn't up to some minimal standard you all agree on, that person owes $60 (or whatever rate you guys decide on) to the person whose rig is there that month. Of course since you've been providing yours all this time, it's the other 3 guys' turn for the next 3 months.

3) Take your stuff with you each week. I would mainly do this if you can't get one of the other ideas to work. PITA, but at least you know your gear won't get messed up by some stranger.

4) (Not really advised but it might be just enough) Change your cab to ONLY speakon inputs (not combo jacks), and when you take your bass and head, also take your speakon cable. Of course they could just get a cable, but if they're too lazy or broke it could work (assuming they don't already use them for their own rigs). If they DID get one and leave it in the space connected to your cab, just take it and if they ask say you thought it was yours because why else would it be connected to your cab? If another one shows up, do the same thing.

Separately, you should definitely look into the price of the space itself. $100 each times that many people seems like an insane amount, even for NYC. If you can get the cost knocked down, you can be a little more flexible with any gear "rental" agreements you might come up with. But I think for 3 other bands using your gear each week, you should be looking for at least $100 a month total. Then after a year, when you have almost enough for a whole new rig, offer to sell the rig to the other guys/the space, as long as you get to continue using it (for free of course), and replace it with a brand new rig for yourself that you keep at home (and take to gigs, obviously).

 

[cronker]

If you are uncomfortable with the current situation, you have already answered your own question.

 

[karl_em_all]

If everybody is using it, somebody's going to abuse it. It's easy for people to take things for granted when they can just show up and use things that don't belong to them. Personally I'd definitely never leave my bass or amp anywhere like that. Anywhere at all really (they always come home with me). Maybe leave the cab but if it was turning into the backline for the jam space without anybody asking, I'd take that too. Once you start taking your stuff with you and the other bands start realizing that they can't depend on any of your gear being there all the time, their own gear will start magically appearing at their practices.

 

[rockinb]

Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. I think we have a consensus, and to be clear, I never signed up for this arrangement where so many people would be using my rig. I'm still curious about what happens to a head and cab after prolonged normal use. Assuming a head and cab are in a stable environment (i.e. not being moved) what happens after hundreds of hours of playing? Do drivers need to be replaced? Thanks again for the feedback.

Hi. Good post. Plenty of others have responded regarding ideology of whether you should let others use your gear, so I will reply more directly to your specific questions.

a) Do amps and cabs deteriorate from normal, stable, proper use? YES. Everything deteriorates due to use and time. Using your gear creates wear and tear due to friction, heat, movement of internal parts (like speaker cones moving back and forth), etc. I am not an electrical engineer, but running electrical current through your gear, lighting up the lights, diodes, leds, generating heat, etc. all use up the "life" of the equipment. There is no gear that you could leave on 24 hours / day and it would work perfectly for infinity without eventual maintenance. With that said, some gear lasts 1 year (hence warranty repairs) and some gear lasts 25+ years. Think of it like any other electronic product - your TV, your phone, your xbox. The more you use it, eventually it will break down or wear out or require some maintenance.

b) I agree with Carl Hillman's prior post that you should sporadically remove some of your gear from the rehearsal space. Take your bass, head or cab with you every so often unannounced. It is your gear and you do not have a contract with the others that they get to use it, so you are not obligated to leave it for their use and you are not obligated to announce whether it will be available for their use each week. Since there is no contract or compensation to you involved, you are not even obliged out of courtesy to tell them when you gear will be there vs. not. You will not look like a d*ck because maybe you want to use the gear a home one week, maybe a friend needs to borrow it for a gig, or maybe you are jamming over the weekend, maybe you are doing A/B comparisons for new gear, etc. Plenty of legitimate and reasonable reasons why you may take your gear with you now and then.

Removing your gear sporadically, accomplishes a few things. It will a) decrease their dependence on your gear, b) motivate them to get their own gear (they have no need since awesome gear is always there), and c) make them realize the gear is a HUGE HUGE courtesy that should not be take for granted without you having to specifically discuss.

c) One additional solution - if you want to leave your gear at the rehearsal site, then I suggest you get a foot locker, storage chest or other locking storage bin. Your LM head is small enough that you can put your head, cables, ac cables, tuners, pedals, etc. all in the foot locker and LOCK it when you leave each night. Keeps everything organized and safe, so win win. The $50 or so (you prob can find cheaper) you spend on locking storage bin will greatly outweigh any repairs (someone blows your amp, drops it, spills beer on it) or losses (your gear gets out right stolen) you may incurr.

You may also want to lock your guitar bass case and run a simple bike lock hooking your bass hard shell case to the footlocker. Not theft proof if someone really wants to steal your stuff, but waaaaay harder than just walking off with gear that is unsecured.

I did the foot locker thing at a couple of shared studio spaces and it worked great. Other advantage of the foot locker was I could put other items in it like a change of clothes (in case I came straight from work one night), toiletries (for those really long all nighter sessions), and extra strings, cables, etc. that I did not want to get lost or "misplaced".

Simple locking foot locker from Amazon.
Amazon.com: Seward Trunk College Dorm and Camp Storage Footlocker, Black, 30 Inch: Clothing

Sounds like you enjoy your studio. Just do a few of the suggestions above and from others and you can enjoy your studio without the worry about your gear or having to second guess if you are getting played. Play more without being played!!

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Hi. Good post. Plenty of others have responded regarding ideology of whether you should let others use your gear, so I will reply more directly to your specific questions.

a) Do amps and cabs deteriorate from normal, stable, proper use? YES. Everything deteriorates due to use and time. Using your gear creates wear and tear due to friction, heat, movement of internal parts (like speaker cones moving back and forth), etc. I am not an electrical engineer, but running electrical current through your gear, lighting up the lights, diodes, leds, generating heat, etc. all use up the "life" of the equipment. There is no gear that you could leave on 24 hours / day and it would work perfectly for infinity without eventual maintenance. With that said, some gear lasts 1 year (hence warranty repairs) and some gear lasts 25+ years. Think of it like any other electronic product - your TV, your phone, your xbox. The more you use it, eventually it will break down or wear out or require some maintenance.

b) I agree with Carl Hillman's prior post that you should sporadically remove some of your gear from the rehearsal space. Take your bass, head or cab with you every so often unannounced. It is your gear and you do not have a contract with the others that they get to use it, so you are not obligated to leave it for their use and you are not obligated to announce whether it will be available for their use each week. Since there is no contract or compensation to you involved, you are not even obliged out of courtesy to tell them when you gear will be there vs. not. You will not look like a d*ck because maybe you want to use the gear a home one week, maybe a friend needs to borrow it for a gig, or maybe you are jamming over the weekend, maybe you are doing A/B comparisons for new gear, etc. Plenty of legitimate and reasonable reasons why you may take your gear with you now and then.

Removing your gear sporadically, accomplishes a few things. It will a) decrease their dependence on your gear, b) motivate them to get their own gear (they have no need since awesome gear is always there), and c) make them realize the gear is a HUGE HUGE courtesy that should not be take for granted without you having to specifically discuss.



c) One additional solution - if you want to leave your gear at the rehearsal site, then I suggest you get a foot locker, storage chest or other locking storage bin. Your LM head is small enough that you can put your head, cables, ac cables, tuners, pedals, etc. all in the foot locker and LOCK it when you leave each night. Keeps everything organized and safe, so win win. The $50 or so (you prob can find cheaper) you spend on locking storage bin will greatly outweigh any repairs (someone blows your amp, drops it, spills beer on it) or losses (your gear gets out right stolen) you may incurr.

You may also want to lock your guitar bass case and run a simple bike lock hooking your bass hard shell case to the footlocker. Not theft proof if someone really wants to steal your stuff, but waaaaay harder than just walking off with gear that is unsecured.

I did the foot locker thing at a couple of shared studio spaces and it worked great. Other advantage of the foot locker was I could put other items in it like a change of clothes (in case I came straight from work one night), toiletries (for those really long all nighter sessions), and extra strings, cables, etc. that I did not want to get lost or "misplaced".

Simple locking foot locker from Amazon.
Amazon.com: Seward Trunk College Dorm and Camp Storage Footlocker, Black, 30 Inch: Clothing

Sounds like you enjoy your studio. Just do a few of the suggestions above and from others and you can enjoy your studio without the worry about your gear or having to second guess if you are getting played. Play more without being played!!

Thanks man. I actually removed my gear from that space months ago. It was a tricky situation because the person responsible for the other people using my gear is sort of a friend. And also, regarding the price: in NYC it's very expensive to get a lockout rehearsal space. $100/month is common for shares. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[rockinb]

Thanks man. I actually removed my gear from that space months ago. It was a tricky situation because the person responsible for the other people using my gear is sort of a friend. And also, regarding the price: in NYC it's very expensive to get a lockout rehearsal space. $100/month is common for shares. Thanks for your feedback.

No problem. Hope you find another good space. Still keep in mind the foot locker or storage box idea. Really handy. Yeah, I am in CA and where I am $100 shared for a space is common as well. Totally understand about the price.

 

[Munjibunga]

All my gear comes in with me and goes home with me, every rehearsal, every gig. Sometimes we practice at a place that has bass and guitar rigs included in the room rental. I still bring my own gear because I can't seem to get a decent sound out of the rigs they provide (name not mentioned to avoid offending TB members who use that gear - it's not bad stuff, just not great).

PS - If it was B-word gear I'd mention it, but it's not.

 

[javi_bassist]

I hardly ever let people to use my gear. Even at shows. Only if I know the guy and is a friend or I know he or she would take a good care of it. I let other people use my cab but not the head. However, I leave everything at the rehearsal space. I share the space with 3 other bands and I cannot assure they don't use if they bring their own cables (I pack the cables with pedals, I don't leave them there) which I doubt because the other bass player didn't even have an amp. There was an incident two months ago though.
One of the other bands didn't have a bass player so they were planning to try some bassists. The singer of my called me (on behalf of his friend, the bandleader of the other band) and asked me politely if they could use my amp. I say "yes, they can use it but they shouldn't get use it because it was about to stop working due to some broken pieces. Just for the trials". A week after that I took my amp to my place because I was gonna record some bass lines and the bandleader called me really angry saying that their new bass player didn't have an amp to play that day and that I had to take the amp back that day and the excuse that it was almost broken was the worst excuse ever. I got really really mad and I forbid them to use my amp again. I cannot control if they use it, but I don't think they do because it is in a rack and they think they need the key to open it. They use it as a table I imagine, because there are beer bottle marks on the top of the rack.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

If I left anything in a public place like that, it would be the oldest most beat up junk I have. My gear goes with me.